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FinleysX25
05-27-2014, 10:17 PM
I picked up my new X25 with Gen 2 Saturday and am having a really hard time dialing in a decent surf wake. I still have my 13' X25 and its wake is far superior to that of any other boat I've owned. My expectations for the Gen2 wake have been really high (possibly too high) or either I'm missing something. I've tried every configuration possible in the six hours I've had it on the water and cannot get anything decent on the port side (oddly the starboard side seems to produce a much cleaner wake).

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice for me? I'm really not even sure where to begin. I've read to check the actuator pins (X25 only has one pin placement) and I've checked the platform height and all seems accurate.

Thank you for any advice or suggestions.

ap77
05-27-2014, 10:37 PM
Is the wave small or not clean? Pictures? Can you see if the surf tabs are deploying properly?

jdhart73
05-27-2014, 10:42 PM
The opposite should hold true (Port cleaner than Starboard typically). You just have the standard Gen 2 set up I assume? If so you need more weight for starters. Larger 750lb bags if they fit in the rear lockers and 400lbs in lead is a good prescription to start with. Leave center tab up.

FinleysX25
05-27-2014, 10:48 PM
The wave is small with a ton of wash, very bizarre looking to be honest. I went underwater today to make sure that the tabs are deploying correctly and as far as I can tell they are. I will take some pics tomorrow but the wake is terrible on the port side, un-surfable. I emptied all of the weight at one point on the starboard side and filled the port ballast 100% with the center ballast at 50%. The center tab was at 40% and the starboard tab was down 100%. When we got up to 11 mph the boat was listing so hard that I literally became fearful (I have a 2 year old). I then put the center ballast at 50 and left the port and stbd at 100 and this worked great for the stbd wake but the port was awful. Passengers weren't an issue bc my wife weighs 100 pounds and my son weighs 31 pounds. I'm really lost here.

FinleysX25
05-27-2014, 10:50 PM
Thank you for the suggestion. I will take the 750s out of my 13' tomorrow and put them in the 14' to see what I can drum up. What about the center hard tank? Should I leave it full?

jdhart73
05-27-2014, 11:08 PM
Read this thread for all the various X25 weighting options. Your Gen 2 will just get better with weight and may still work better listed. http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=47323

FinleysX25
05-27-2014, 11:10 PM
Thank you

TheWoons
05-27-2014, 11:23 PM
The X25 is a great surfing boat. I haven't used the gen2 on the 25 but listing it makes a great wave. Something you're doing isn't right because the port side is always clean and you're not running anywhere near enough weight to scare yourself listing it. That thread linked above is a good one

Nick911
05-27-2014, 11:43 PM
My dealer wanted 6.5K to upgrade to Gen 2 for my 2013 X25. No thanks. Still have not seen any evidence that the system really works. Guys who have it dialled are filling very square inch of their boat with ballast and lead to get it right.

Disappointed. I'm a member of Planet Nautique and it's very clear that NSS is unanimously out of the box functional with stock, subfloor ballast.

Jonb1822
05-28-2014, 08:38 AM
Finley, follow this setup:

Fill all hard ballast tanks, add 750lb bags to both Starboard & Port and if you dont have enough people take 400lbs on lead and place in the rear/cockpit area of the boat (go heavy on the port side).

Starboard Tab - 40%
Center - 0%
Port Tab - 0%

If you run the Gen 2 tabs at 100% the wake get short and washed out. If you surf port keep the tab between 30%-40%. I come from listing my old X25, so I know what kind of wave the X25 can produce. This setup give you a clean (no wash) long wave to surf. Let me know if you have questions. If you surf starboard you will need to run the tabs a lot different.

Jonb1822
05-28-2014, 08:43 AM
The wave is small with a ton of wash, very bizarre looking to be honest. I went underwater today to make sure that the tabs are deploying correctly and as far as I can tell they are. I will take some pics tomorrow but the wake is terrible on the port side, un-surfable. I emptied all of the weight at one point on the starboard side and filled the port ballast 100% with the center ballast at 50%. The center tab was at 40% and the starboard tab was down 100%. When we got up to 11 mph the boat was listing so hard that I literally became fearful (I have a 2 year old). I then put the center ballast at 50 and left the port and stbd at 100 and this worked great for the stbd wake but the port was awful. Passengers weren't an issue bc my wife weighs 100 pounds and my son weighs 31 pounds. I'm really lost here.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I am not sure what the issue is, but I posted about this about a month ago. I listed my boat to port (port tank, 750lb bag in locker, 750 lb bag under port coffin and 500 lbs of lead, plus people) and when i put the tab to 100% the boat listed dangerously hard. It actually lifts the boat and starboard bow way out of the water. I am use to slamming boats with a lot of ballast and I can assure you this is not a normal list. It was bad enough everyone in my boat jumped to the other side b/c they were scared of the boat flipping. It is definitely not normal.

waterguy
05-28-2014, 08:48 AM
We are still learning a lot with our '14 X25 Gen 2 set up also. We do a lot of Starboard side surfing and looking for help too. Seems like the best way to go is to upgrade the added ballast bags in the rear lockers to 750's. What is the best brand/size to fit those rear lockers the best? Also, If anyone has the ideal tab settings for starboard, we would greatly appreciate some help. And one last ?, I was trying to find online, but no luck; What are the stock hard tank sizes in the 2014 X25? Trying to start getting an Idea of what we have for weight.

Thanks!!!

FinleysX25
05-28-2014, 08:56 AM
I'm glad someone else has seen this because I was starting to think something was terribly wrong. I did notice that having the tab down 100% was very counterproductive and the wake was nonexistent. I will try the settings you've laid out today and hopefully see something better. With my 13' X25 I set it up this way and get an incredible wave:

750 in the rear locker
750 under the passenger seat
Fill the port hard tank completely
Fill the center hard tank at 60
The Starboard surf tab down 100%
The Center tab down 40%

(This is the configuration that I tried with my 14' that listed the boat to a dangerous level)

So today I'll try this with the 14'

750 in rear locker
400 under passenger seat
All hard tanks full
750 in stbd locker
stbd tab down 40%

I'll take some pics of what I come up with and post a picture from the 13' and the 14' for people to see and compare. Thank you all for the advice and help.

FinleysX25
05-28-2014, 09:11 AM
@Waterguy

I use the Fly High Pro X 750's. It gets super cramped back in the rear lockers when full but I've never had a problem with a rupture or anything of that nature.

I'm going to snap some pics of the wakes on each side of the 14' 25 with Gen 2 in a bit and will post what I come up with.

TheWoons
05-28-2014, 09:14 AM
If you're deploying a tab and it's counter productive to the side you want to surf on the wrong one is going down

waterguy
05-28-2014, 09:16 AM
@FinleysX25

Could you post a picture of the rear lockers with your 750's as full as you put them while you are out?

Thanks!!!

Jonb1822
05-28-2014, 09:26 AM
Also play with your speed, 11.2 to 11.6. I usually prefer faster but just personel preference.

FinleysX25
05-28-2014, 09:31 AM
@WaterGuy

Sure, will do.

@TheWoons

The Gen 2 tabs are much different then the surf tabs on my 13'. On the 13' I'll put the tabs down all the way and the wake is awesome. With the gen2 tabs on the 14' the wake looks the best when they are about halfway down (I have no clue why it is this way). When the gen2 tab goes down all the way you can feel the pull on the boat and the wake just becomes rolling wash. It's a bit bizarre and sounds strange I know, but from my experience with the Gen2 thus far this is what I'm seeing. So far the 13' surf wake is far superior to that of the 14' with the Gen2 on the X25. I've heard much different stories from my friends with X30s though. The experimenting will continue today.

waterguy
05-28-2014, 11:36 AM
Anyone know the hard tank sizes for 2014 X25? Can't find it anywhere!

Jonb1822
05-28-2014, 11:55 AM
It's total of 800ish and something like 400 center and 200 port and 200 starboard

Nick911
05-28-2014, 12:05 PM
Hard tanks are like 180 each and front 445. From the Gen 2 manual.

Nick911
05-28-2014, 04:12 PM
I'm glad someone else has seen this because I was starting to think something was terribly wrong. I did notice that having the tab down 100% was very counterproductive and the wake was nonexistent. I will try the settings you've laid out today and hopefully see something better. With my 13' X25 I set it up this way and get an incredible wave:



750 in the rear locker

750 under the passenger seat

Fill the port hard tank completely

Fill the center hard tank at 60

The Starboard surf tab down 100%

The Center tab down 40%



(This is the configuration that I tried with my 14' that listed the boat to a dangerous level)



So today I'll try this with the 14'



750 in rear locker

400 under passenger seat

All hard tanks full

750 in stbd locker

stbd tab down 40%



I'll take some pics of what I come up with and post a picture from the 13' and the 14' for people to see and compare. Thank you all for the advice and help.


You can fit a 750 under starboard seat on X25? I use a 410 lb coffin bag and that fills the space.

atthelake
05-28-2014, 05:55 PM
If you're deploying a tab and it's counter productive to the side you want to surf on the wrong one is going down

Ryan, you thinking there may have been some kind of crossed up wiring on his boat? Port is Starboard---Starboard is Port kinda thing?

TheWoons
05-28-2014, 07:09 PM
Ryan, you thinking there may have been some kind of crossed up wiring on his boat? Port is Starboard---Starboard is Port kinda thing?

Yes because there's no way or reason why putting down the correct tab would be counter productive and make things worse. The opposite side tab goes down from the side you surf. The tabs work well, especially the Gen2 when using them listed or not.

Jonb1822
05-28-2014, 08:10 PM
I can assure you I tried both tabs to verify and listing the x25 and putting the tab to 100% does not work. I did not test putting at 30-50 though. Will check this week.

FinleysX25
05-28-2014, 09:41 PM
Here are some pics of the 14' X25 Gen 2 compared to the 13' X25 with regular surf tabs. All of the following were taken today. The pics of the Gen 2 came after a couple of hours of messing with the settings and having the 400 lb bags switched to 750s. I'll let you guys be the judge.

The first 6 attachments are of the 2014 X25 loaded with Gen 2:

The last 4 are of the 2013 X25 with 750lb plug-n-play ballast full:

(Not sure how to insert the images properly so my apologies for the rotation of the photos)

Jonb1822
05-28-2014, 09:58 PM
What setup with gen 2? Seems off from the results I was able to achieve over the weekend.

MC25
05-28-2014, 10:02 PM
We have all come to a general consensus that the listing boats beat the even weighted gen 2 or surfgate or blah blah.

But the pics of the 13, the wake is bananas

FinleysX25
05-28-2014, 10:04 PM
This was the best setup I could get. I did a demo with another X25 in April that had a much better wake than this and it was the exact same boat just a different color. That is what leads me to believe that something else is wrong with this boat. Here is the configuration:

750 in rear locker
All hard tanks full
750 in stbd locker
stbd tab down 51%
Center tab down 19%

What setup were you running over the weekend? I feel like I've tried everything and its becoming a bit exhausting. I'm taking the boat back tomorrow afternoon.

Nick911
05-28-2014, 11:35 PM
So does anyone have a Gen 2 dialled yet? Anyone at all?

Jonb1822
05-29-2014, 01:29 AM
I ran the following:

All hard tanks full
750lb - starboard
750lb - port
400 - lead spread out with majority on port side coffin
Center tab - 0% (using it makes the wave too short)
Starboard tab - 30%-40%
4-6 people

The wave was clean, like what your 2013 wave looks like. It was clean and curled over at the back of the wave.

I experimented a lot and most settings the wave had no push. This setup was like listing the boat on my 2011 and had a ton of push, our newbies could surf for days. Sorry for not taking pics.

Nick911
05-29-2014, 08:44 AM
I ran the following:

All hard tanks full
750lb - starboard
750lb - port
400 - lead spread out with majority on port side coffin
Center tab - 0% (using it makes the wave too short)
Starboard tab - 30%-40%
4-6 people

The wave was clean, like what your 2013 wave looks like. It was clean and curled over at the back of the wave.

I experimented a lot and most settings the wave had no push. This setup was like listing the boat on my 2011 and had a ton of push, our newbies could surf for days. Sorry for not taking pics.


So when you drop opposite tab can you get a clean, surfable wake on the other side?

Jonb1822
05-29-2014, 08:54 AM
Absolutely. It has great push and clean. I surf around 11.5, but we had newbies surfing at 11. This only made the wave taller and was still clean. It had so much push at 11 that we had 2 people who never surfed go ropeless on their second & third attempts. I tried it at 11 and honestly rode on my back foot the entire time b/c I could not slow down and this was riding on a hyperlite broadcast.

I was very disappointed at first with Gen 2 (got pretty aggravated with it), but most of the time we will use it b/c it is so much easier to fill up than previous ways. I come from listing my last X25, so I know what the X25 can do. I think everyone is getting frustrated right now b/c Mastercraft has done such a poor job telling people how to get a great wave with Gen 2. My dealer has no clue.

Nick911
05-29-2014, 09:48 AM
^^^awesome!

skitilldark
05-29-2014, 11:26 AM
My surf wakes are dialed in pretty good. (2014 x25) I'm no pro surfer like others here though. But it is massive, has a great curl and a very long push wall out to about 15 feet or so. The tabs are amazing when the rider wants to change sides. Super awesome. I've got the gen 2 with the 750 lb bags in the rear lockers as well. I'm just using the surf left/surf right presets from the dealer.

What I can't dial in is a great wakeboard wake. Great on port, lousy, sloshy with no crisp lip on the starboard. I've tried everything I know on weight distribution. Can't dial it in yet. It is so weird though, as you ride the lip will appear for about 30 seconds, then turn to foam for a minute or so, then the lip will come back on and off. Super weird.

Morety
05-29-2014, 11:30 AM
What I can't dial in is a great wakeboard wake. Great on port, lousy, sloshy with no crisp lip on the starboard. I've tried everything I know on weight distribution. Can't dial it in yet. It is so weird though, as you ride the lip will appear for about 30 seconds, then turn to foam for a minute or so, then the lip will come back on and off. Super weird.

I have a 2014 X10 with Gen 2 and agree that the surf wake is great, but am also having trouble dialing in the wakeboard wake. I started with the preset "Max Wake" setting, but am wondering if I need to actually empty some of the weight in the back or add weight to the nose to help the wakeboard wake.

waterguy
05-29-2014, 11:35 AM
Skitilldark, What were the settings your dealer had set up for surf right? The next step for us is to get the 750s in the rear lockers, but want to know if my dealer set the same settings.

skitilldark
05-29-2014, 11:56 AM
Ballast 100% P,C,S, tabs: 0 P, 100C, 100 S for surf left

Ballast 100% P, C,S, tabs 100P, 100C, 0 S for surf right

10.5 is the speed.

skitilldark
05-29-2014, 12:03 PM
I have a 2014 X10 with Gen 2 and agree that the surf wake is great, but am also having trouble dialing in the wakeboard wake. I started with the preset "Max Wake" setting, but am wondering if I need to actually empty some of the weight in the back or add weight to the nose to help the wakeboard wake.

The closest I got to a decent lip on both sides was to put the heaviest people in the front, go with tabs 0 P, 100 C, 0 S, and a 100 P, 100 C and 20 S ballast. But like I said, the lip comes and goes. I've just been timing my jumps from S to P when I see the lip.

FinleysX25
05-29-2014, 12:05 PM
skitilldark,

Do you have a pic of the wake with these settings. And are you getting this wake with just the stock ballast and the 750s full or do you have additional weight somewhere? I want something to show my dealer to compare someone else's result to my own. I'm taking it back this afternoon as part of the MC buyback program but would like to see what a 14' 25 wake with Gen2 should look like. Thanks

TheWoons
05-29-2014, 12:15 PM
I have a lot of X25 surf wake videos on my YouTube channel but here's one and you can hit my profile and see others. This is a 2012 just listed. This is within a month of when my wife had first started to surf so we were just learning then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY2NpeIjBrY

Jonb1822
05-29-2014, 01:42 PM
skitilldark,

Do you have a pic of the wake with these settings. And are you getting this wake with just the stock ballast and the 750s full or do you have additional weight somewhere? I want something to show my dealer to compare someone else's result to my own. I'm taking it back this afternoon as part of the MC buyback program but would like to see what a 14' 25 wake with Gen2 should look like. Thanks

What boat are you going to get?

Has anyone done a Buyback yet? Curious what boats they swap to since you have to buy another boat from a competitor.

FinleysX25
05-29-2014, 02:11 PM
My dealer told me I could bring it back and place an order for an X30. I was under the assumption it was MC buying it back but maybe its the dealership. Either way it is great to have this option. I was really hoping to figure the Gen2 though.

Jonb1822
05-29-2014, 02:20 PM
Ah. That's a good deal to have.

skitilldark
05-29-2014, 02:29 PM
It is POURING here right now, but I'll get some pics after,the storm passes.

skitilldark
05-29-2014, 07:49 PM
Finleys,
Here is the best I could get this afternoon. No one in the boat so the curl is not as pronounced, but here are what my settings are doing;

Jonb1822
05-29-2014, 09:25 PM
Finleys,
Here is the best I could get this afternoon. No one in the boat so the curl is not as pronounced, but here are what my settings are doing;

Looks flat. Are you running the surf tabs at 100%?

waterguy
05-31-2014, 12:39 AM
Got out this afternoon and ran into something a little interesting. Had my surf profile set up with stock gen 2 tanks full, Port Tab: 100% and Center Tab:20. The wake never really cleaned up. However, as I was running, I manually shifted tabs to 100% Starboard to check out regular side wave and it looked great. Then I manually shifted tabs back to 100% port and the wake looked way better than it first did. Repeated this later when it was my turn to surf goofy again and got the same results. I have no explanation for this, anyone see this before? I will try and post some pictures or videos tomorrow to help explain.

waterguy
06-02-2014, 01:02 PM
Finleysx25, Did you end up returning the X25? We had ours out this weekend with the stock gen 2 system and about 10 people in the boat and the wake was awesome. In the process of getting some pictures from people, but had some good progress on the surf wake. Also found with the wakeboard wake, that we could minimize that wash by moving people a little bit. adjusted one person from port side to starboard side and the wake cleaned up beautifully. Here it is at 21.5 mph with p:50 c:100 s:50.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/unedu5yd.jpg

Didn't land the backroll either. Getting closer!

Bump!!!!

skitilldark
06-03-2014, 05:59 PM
Got out this afternoon and ran into something a little interesting. Had my surf profile set up with stock gen 2 tanks full, Port Tab: 100% and Center Tab:20. The wake never really cleaned up. However, as I was running, I manually shifted tabs to 100% Starboard to check out regular side wave and it looked great. Then I manually shifted tabs back to 100% port and the wake looked way better than it first did. Repeated this later when it was my turn to surf goofy again and got the same results. I have no explanation for this, anyone see this before? I will try and post some pictures or videos tomorrow to help explain.

I have to use the left and right tab buttons to trim up the wakeboard wake. For some reason one side would always foam up while the other side would be crisp but if I bump the left or right tab button(depending on which side is foaming) a couple of times it will clean up both wakes.

waterguy
06-03-2014, 08:41 PM
When you get the foamy wake, do you bump the tab on the foam side or opposite to help clean it up?