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View Full Version : Gen2 did you all know this?


jdhart73
04-09-2014, 07:57 PM
(Edited to add that I am totally wrong about this and so was the Mastercraft rep I talked to so don't waste your time reading..LOL.)



So am I the only knucklehead that didn't know Gen2 also includes a sack that goes under the floor up front? I assume it is plumbed into the overflow on the KGB ballast from the looks of the diagram. The below shows all of the boats that offer Gen2 and the weights associated with each. The X30 adds 1920 lbs total over stock. The X10 adds damn near that much for being a smaller boat, should be good!

This changes my approach to how I weight this thing if so, won't need any additional thru hulls if this is the case. Maybe just slap a few hundred pounds of lead on each side coffin locker.

http://i57.tinypic.com/214qb03.jpg

bcd
04-09-2014, 08:10 PM
I was of the understanding that those numbers included the 3 standard hard tanks, but I could be wrong. If they do include the standard tanks, the rear bags don't look to be maximum volume. The X-2 fly high bags are 450 pounds, which would only leave 100 pounds for the hard tank, if the gen2 bags were the same 450 to fill the rear storage area.

Nick911
04-09-2014, 08:12 PM
I think those are all stock KGB tanksZ

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 08:14 PM
I was told these were the additional bags that go in on top of stock by the person I talked with at Mastercraft today. We know the system includes 2 extra bags in the rear, it was the extra bag up front that I was not aware of.

501s
04-09-2014, 08:18 PM
Those weights include all factory. It's only adding on about 1k to the x30 in the form of 2 sacs in the rear. Probably about 450s a side. There is easily room for 750s as we all know.

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 08:20 PM
So if thats all stock KGB tanks then why does it not reflect the plug and play bags that we know go with the system in the rear? Im confused.

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 08:22 PM
Ahh ok so you are saying the rear corners on the X30 for instance are factory hard tanks plus whatever the bags they put in it for plug and play?

Well thats lame and not at all what they told me but makes sense. The crazy thing is I don't think they know! LOL

I wonder why the random 710 # in the rear? What does the hard tank weight vs. the bags?

FourFourty
04-09-2014, 08:46 PM
I measured the bags on my X30, and calculated their weight when full..... The bags are 400lb, so I assume the factory tanks are 310 each. And I can confirm that my boat did not come with any bag for the front. That advertised weight is just the KGB. I did, however, add a pump, and a pigtail hose, so I could easily fill/empty one in the front. I put the switch in the spot for the tower switch at the helm, and installed a jabsco ballast timer to prevent burning up the switch or the pump.

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 08:50 PM
Thanks FourFourty, that makes sense. I got all excited thinking I could avoid adding some thru hulls but it looks like I will be doing just that. Oh well! I feel stupid!

FourFourty
04-09-2014, 08:54 PM
Why add a through hull?

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 09:08 PM
Boat needs the weight. 800#s in rear lockers, 400-450's in the sides (coffin, cooler area) and 400 lead up front. Now this is weight for listing side to side but doesn't hurt to have it. I guarantee the gen 2 promo video was not shot with a total of 1920lbs of ballast.

I'm adding 2 thru hulls so as to not overwork the factory system and if will speed up my fill and dumps.
The new pumps will fill the rear locker and side storage.

KnoxX2
04-09-2014, 09:22 PM
You can put a 1000# sac in the rear locker. I did this on a 2012. I think you can put the 650#
Size: 60"L x 26"W x 10"H. In the coffin/cooler area. The only thing is I am not 100% sure of the dimensions of these areas. I will need to wait and see. If anyone has an X30 and wants to measure this area (starboard side cooler locker) that would be great?

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 09:24 PM
It's 48L x 18W x 12T. (Cooler area)

The rear locker will take a 1000lb bag but will only hold like 790lbs.
Dimensions are 50 x 22 x 20. I am throwing some straight line 900's in there.

KnoxX2
04-09-2014, 09:35 PM
How far back did you measure? I thought it was longer than 48". Can you use the Straight Line bags with the Fat Sac fittings?

FourFourty
04-09-2014, 09:37 PM
You have two existing ballast through hulls. One of which is a two port, and the other should only have one port on it. This design through hull can handle up to 3 1" ports without flow restriction. You only really need one more port added for your auxiliary bags. These through hulls use a "stacked port" configuration. Just add the second stacked port on the through hull that only has one port on it. You won't have any flow restrictions like that. This new setup that MC uses, is a lot better than their old "single through hull+manifold" setup.

KnoxX2
04-09-2014, 09:43 PM
Does the cooler locker pass all the way through to the rear locker?

FourFourty
04-09-2014, 09:47 PM
^yes.

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 10:10 PM
Yes but it gets very narrow. I have looked at building a custom bag but in the spirit of making the bags even on both sides you would need to build shelves due to height variances in the lockers.

Adding all of those ballast bags to the existing pumps would put a lot of pressure on the pumps once you started filling the overflows. Not to mention that unless you wanted to fill all four every time you would need to install ball valves to close off individual lines going to the extra bags.

I just think its a cleaner install and faster fill and drain to put in two more thru hull's with pumps.

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 10:17 PM
The one with only one port being used is to the KGB tank I believe? Are you saying to put a Y on the extra port off of that and run to your side coffin and cooler lockers? Not a bad idea but you would have to doing multiple Y's into the rear overflow as well with check valves which could be problematic for draining as well if I am thinking of this right?

If I am not picking up what you are putting down tell me how you would route everything given my proposed configuration. 2 900's in the rear lockers, 2 450's in the side coffins.


You have two existing ballast through hulls. One of which is a two port, and the other should only have one port on it. This design through hull can handle up to 3 1" ports without flow restriction. You only really need one more port added for your auxiliary bags. These through hulls use a "stacked port" configuration. Just add the second stacked port on the through hull that only has one port on it. You won't have any flow restrictions like that. This new setup that MC uses, is a lot better than their old "single through hull+manifold" setup.

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 10:19 PM
I was actually going to have custom bags with legs built and build shelves out of polyethylene (white plastic cutting board material) to make an even surface for the leg. I decided against it when I saw how narrow the lockers get in the pass through and the battery isolator and reset switches are in the port side which would get pushed on pretty heavily.

Does the cooler locker pass all the way through to the rear locker?

Nick911
04-09-2014, 10:43 PM
I want someone to dial in their Gen 2 boat to look like this.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/10/6ebypejy.jpg

Definitely doesn't look like Zane's video. Someone with a Gen 2 add 2K over stock and get that camera going!

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 10:45 PM
Where is that from? ^^^

Nick911
04-09-2014, 11:19 PM
Facebook.

KnoxX2
04-09-2014, 11:43 PM
I was actually going to have custom bags with legs built and build shelves out of polyethylene (white plastic cutting board material) to make an even surface for the leg. I decided against it when I saw how narrow the lockers get in the pass through and the battery isolator and reset switches are in the port side which would get pushed on pretty heavily.

Good point. I had a custom bag built for my X2 a long time ago. I don't want to go that route again. :rolleyes:

So what comes with the Gen2? 2 400# bags in the rear lockers?

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 11:46 PM
Apparently so on the 400# bags. I am putting 900lb Sumo's in there and 450 sumo's in the side lockers. Hoping to net around 1200-1250 extra per side and throw in 400 lead up front.

KnoxX2
04-09-2014, 11:49 PM
That should give you about 2000# on each side with the stock rear tank and KGB. When will you have this done so we can see the results of your efforts?

jdhart73
04-09-2014, 11:55 PM
KGB is 500 and Stocks are 310 so 1120 there. Add the 1200 per side and you will have 3520 total plus 400 in lead in the nose and you have 3920 total, pretty darn close!

I plan on putting ball valves on the line to the side sumos so I can not fill those if I have a lot of people on the boat or if I determine that Gen 2 works better without those. Those were really for traditionally listing the boat without Gen 2.

I should have everything done in 2-3 weeks and hopefully tested by then as well.

KnoxX2
04-10-2014, 12:40 AM
KGB is 500 and Stocks are 310 so 1120 there. Add the 1200 per side and you will have 3520 total plus 400 in lead in the nose and you have 3920 total, pretty darn close!

I plan on putting ball valves on the line to the side sumos so I can not fill those if I have a lot of people on the boat or if I determine that Gen 2 works better without those. Those were really for traditionally listing the boat without Gen 2.

I should have everything done in 2-3 weeks and hopefully tested by then as well.

You will be one of the first slammed new X-30s out there. So hurry up we are all waiting to see how well the new system will do with extra weight. :D:D

KnoxX2
04-10-2014, 12:40 AM
BTW what color did you finally end up with?

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 01:12 AM
This one. Was not any of the choices in my poll, lol.
It will look different in a few weeks though so stay tuned!

http://i62.tinypic.com/e7arnr.jpg

Stefan
04-10-2014, 01:23 AM
This one. Was not any of the choices in my poll, lol.
It will look different in a few weeks though so stay tuned!

http://i62.tinypic.com/e7arnr.jpg

Like it, removing the decal? That's a '12, '13 or a '14?

edit: and yes I knew Gen2 only includes rear sacs... pretty small rear sacs in the first Version for the X46 those were, but now that seems to be fixed. They took out the rear compartment wall which I would do for any boat to be sac'ed and increased the size.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 01:50 AM
It's a 13 with 7 hours (demo). I am tinting the windows and putting a 14' decal on it after stripping the current ones.

Stefan
04-10-2014, 02:15 AM
It's a 13 with 7 hours (demo). I am tinting the windows and putting a 14' decal on it after stripping the current ones.

Beautiful...
so you get the easy to prorgam ballast timers

I voted for the black/green btw...obviously why... picking my X46 up tomorrow ;)

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=989&pictureid=5833

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 02:43 AM
Wow^^^ now that's a big ole slice of heaven right there.
Be sure to give us a tour in photos on that big sucker!

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 07:05 AM
The one with only one port being used is to the KGB tank I believe? Are you saying to put a Y on the extra port off of that and run to your side coffin and cooler lockers? Not a bad idea but you would have to doing multiple Y's into the rear overflow as well with check valves which could be problematic for draining as well if I am thinking of this right?

If I am not picking up what you are putting down tell me how you would route everything given my proposed configuration. 2 900's in the rear lockers, 2 450's in the side coffins.

Sort of.... This is what I did.....

On the port side of my transmission there is a double stacked through hull with each port going to each rear pump. I left that just as it is. On the starboard side of the trans there is the same type of through hull, but only has one stacked outlet installed on it from the factory. My dealer got me the additional outlet to install on that through hull. (Now it is a 2 port through hull like the port side factory setup) supposedly, this style through hull can handle 3 ports without restricting flow on 12gpm pumps.

Now that I have the extra port, I used that for my extra pump, and then ran a pig tail hose into the cavern compartment. I am going to just use it to fill any bag, anywhere in the boat.

I think, if I was doing your setup, I would add 2 ports on to the KGB through hull and not use any Y fittings in the lines. Don't bother venting your coffin and cooler locker bags. They don't need it. The pumps can't overfill or burst the bags. Just install an air vent fitting on them, so that you can evacuate the accumulated air every once in a while. (Although my XStar setup never accumulated air at all. I don't think the 30 will either)


My weight setup is going to be- 200lbs lead in each corner in the back (hidden behind rear panels under the pumps), 300lbs lead up front, 1000lb bags in the lockers, and a 1000lb waterbed bag. Should be about 4500lbs total ballast although the rear bags only hold about 900-920 based on a very comprehensive sq/in calculation..... So about 4300 and change.

I still have bags for the coffin and cooler lockers but I am gonna give the mattress a shot first. It's only a few inches tall and you can walk on it etc.....

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 08:02 AM
So how would you achieve the multiple ports off the 1 thru hull? Maybe use a brass Tee after the gate valve then run your hose to each side off of that?

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 09:09 AM
^ You can disassemble the through hull assembly, and add a port. Look at your port side through hull.... It is a two port assembly. You can add a port to the starboard side to match.

I think you just pull like 3 screws, remove the top piece, add the additional port, and reassemble with longer screws. I had my dealer change mine, so don't quote me on that. I believe that is the procedure though.

I usually do all of my own mods, but this spring is crazy busy at work....

bcd
04-10-2014, 09:09 AM
So is the first step to remove the factory gen2 rear bags and replace them with the fly high bags sized to each boat to fill the rear locker?

scott023
04-10-2014, 09:13 AM
Beautiful...
so you get the easy to prorgam ballast timers

I voted for the black/green btw...obviously why... picking my X46 up tomorrow ;)

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=989&pictureid=5833

Wow. That's stellar.

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 09:20 AM
So is the first step to remove the factory gen2 rear bags and replace them with the fly high bags sized to each boat to fill the rear locker?

Yessir

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 09:27 AM
Guess I'm not tracking. A traditional thru hull is like this correct?
http://i61.tinypic.com/264nlm0.jpg

Only way I see to add additional ports is with a T after the gate valve.

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 09:58 AM
Should look like this...... Notice how it has the second port added to the top? You can do this to the existing thru hull that only has the lower port on it. (KGB thru hull)

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5359

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 10:03 AM
But I would need 3 ports on one correct? Running an additional pump to each side.
Can you stack 3?

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 10:07 AM
That's up to you. On my XStar, I added the top port, and then T'd that to the two added pumps. It seemed to work well. On my 30, I am only adding one pump, so I didn't T any of it. I do believe you can make this style thru-hull into a 3 port without flow issues.

I suppose that if you are adding 2 pumps, the most "Ideal" setup would be to add 1 thru-hull, like the one pictured, and use those two ports.

Nick911
04-10-2014, 10:30 AM
Some good info in this thread. It should almost be renamed.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 10:30 AM
I've never seen that kind of thru hull fitting before so I'm not familiar with the installation.
It certainly looks like it has a bigger footprint and profile than the standard brass mushroom.
I would probably just stack one like you mention and T off of it.

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 10:35 AM
The center hole is quite a bit bigger than 1". It definitely allows for really good flow to the 1" ports. It is a nice design that they switched to.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 10:46 AM
Thanks! Looking into this, could save me some drilling which would be nice!

bjen
04-10-2014, 10:48 AM
Interesting
- can that thru hull fitting be used and retrofitted to avoid drilling 2 more holes to run dedicated lines to my old gen X2 with the manifold? I like the idea of enlarging the existing hole better than drilling new ones like I was planning.

DHPRO
04-10-2014, 11:25 AM
The center hole is quite a bit bigger than 1". It definitely allows for really good flow to the 1" ports. It is a nice design that they switched to.

Where do u live...Im bringin my boat to u! This is wayyyy over my head. :cool:

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 01:16 PM
Where do u live...Im bringin my boat to u! This is wayyyy over my head. :cool:

:D

Im in Castleton VT. Where are you?

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 03:24 PM
Ah hell I'm just gonna stick with drilling holes. I don't trust that those ports can supply those loads over the long haul. Mastercraft still sends boats out with the pumps motor side down so I can't trust them... Lol.

lentiman
04-10-2014, 05:26 PM
Any idea what year they started using this style of port? '12, '13? I'd love to install two Jabsco's on my stock KGB through hull if it supports the flow. I can look at my boat tomorrow night but it's Thursday and I'm not into delayed gratification today.

Should look like this...... Notice how it has the second port added to the top? You can do this to the existing thru hull that only has the lower port on it. (KGB thru hull)

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5359

lentiman
04-10-2014, 05:29 PM
Why would long haul matter? Either they support the flow or they don't. Is your main concern burning out the pumps due to insufficient flow? Someone here should be able to figure out if the through hull on these is X diameter how much flow it can support. It's not my specialty though. :D

Ah hell I'm just gonna stick with drilling holes. I don't trust that those ports can supply those loads over the long haul. Mastercraft still sends boats out with the pumps motor side down so I can't trust them... Lol.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 05:40 PM
Yes burning out pumps and impellers would be my concern when we are talking about filling 800lb and 400lb bags on top of factory hard tanks. If someone has something to support these thru hulls being able to accommodate multiple pumps then I would be satisfied. Just because Mastercraft does it does not mean that it should be done though so I would like to see some data if available.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 05:42 PM
They are 1.5" diameter. Have to have someone figure out if the draw of 3 jabsco's or Johnson's fits within those parameter.

lentiman
04-10-2014, 05:57 PM
<<thanks JD, I corrected my units>>

So the through hull is 1.5"? The tubing for the Jabsco's is 1" diameter and they pull at 540 gph, correct? So the question is can a 1.5" diameter hole pull 1620 gpm.

Did some research, and it's super rough but it looks as though a 1.5" hole should support up to 750-900 gph. So 1620 gph seems like a bad idea. I'm still looking for a better answer though. It does depend on the pressure each pump is providing!

They are 1.5" diameter. Have to have someone figure out if the draw of 3 jabsco's or Johnson's fits within those parameter.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 06:08 PM
Each pump pulls 640-720 GPH depending on whether you go with Jabsco or Johnson.
On the rough math that barely covers one pump.

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 07:37 PM
Well, the inside diameter of the pump ports is only 3/4 so....... Not to mention it necks down even smaller before it hits the vanes.

And I can tell you for sure that a 1 1/2 tube will handle over 4x what a 3/4 tube will.

Anywho, I think either way is going to work fine. I had 3 pumps running off 2 ports on 1 through hull on my Star, and throughput was better than 12gpm on all three pumps, while they were running at the same time.

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 07:50 PM
Pump dimensions don't really matter. The stated capacities are proven at the quoted number.
And I agree, it would likely be just fine but I just don't want to deal with burnt out pumps or impellers so I will play it safe.

FourFourty
04-10-2014, 08:01 PM
According to these numbers, an 1 1/2 could support 3 pumps with only gravity pushing it, and way more than that at 20psi. These pumps run about 10psi, so it is somewhere in between that. Based on the linear rise with pressure, 10 psi should support about 60 gallons per minute through 1 1/2".

http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml


I think at this point, I am only trying to convince myself :D

jdhart73
04-10-2014, 09:05 PM
LOL ^^^

You sound way more well versed on the dynamics of water flow and capacities than I am.
If nothing else I get to drill holes in my boat and speed up the fill and empty process by adding some more thru hulls.

FoggyNogginz
04-13-2014, 09:54 PM
Where are you guys buying the lead ballast? Are you using lead shot bags or bricks?

jdhart73
04-13-2014, 10:19 PM
Foggy there are a few options. www.bombwake.com has steel pellets and is around $450 shipped for 400lbs (50lb bags).

Jared Cutler makes some bags called Leadwake and the pricing is similar but its 50lb lead bags that are sealed with an integrated handle. The benefit to lead is it will be smaller in size due to lead being more dense. Cant go wrong with either. His contact info is [email protected]

FoggyNogginz
04-13-2014, 10:32 PM
Thanks JD. Much appreciated. I'll check these out.

jdhart73
04-13-2014, 10:34 PM
No sweat! Weigh her down!

lentiman
04-16-2014, 01:44 PM
Bruce at Action Watersports comes through again with MC part numbers:
2 port through hull: 300273
1 port through hull: 300272

I have one of each of these in my 2012 X2. Looks like a 3 port part number doesn't exist though.