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CoachK5
03-17-2014, 12:47 PM
Looking for some opinions on what the differences are between the 190's and 205/209's.
I'm looking to upgrade to an open bow and want to know what to expect with the bigger boat.

02ProstarSammyD
03-17-2014, 01:01 PM
What do you do the most of?

A 190 is going to have a better ski wake than either. Personally I can tell you the 209 is good at everything but not great at anything. Don't mean that as an insult to it as I love mine. It does a bit of everything well. Also the room difference is huge.You are going to get better responses if you say what you are trying to do and with how many people.

Double D
03-17-2014, 01:32 PM
Looking for some opinions on what the differences are between the 190's and 205/209's.
I'm looking to upgrade to an open bow and want to know what to expect with the bigger boat.

What do you do the most of?

A 190 is going to have a better ski wake than either. Personally I can tell you the 209 is good at everything but not great at anything. Don't mean that as an insult to it as I love mine. It does a bit of everything well. Also the room difference is huge.You are going to get better responses if you say what you are trying to do and with how many people.

Which would mean the 205 would best match his 190 in performance, depending on the year. The 209 has more space, that's a fact.

02ProstarSammyD
03-17-2014, 01:38 PM
Which would mean the 205 would best match his 190 in performance, depending on the year. The 209 has more space, that's a fact.

yea but did he want it to match his 190 in performance or something else?

shepherd
03-17-2014, 03:02 PM
From my personal experience, there is virtually no difference in the skiing performance between a 190 (1990) and a 205 (1993). Also, the 1993 205 skis as good as my '03 197 (at 34+ mph); it just takes a little longer to get there. My point is, you shouldn't let the 205 scare you off if you need more room. I know nothing about the 209 other than what I read here, which is pretty much what SammyD is saying about it.

zsqure
03-18-2014, 01:08 PM
I moved from an '88 190 into an '01 209. There is a huge difference in size. There is a big difference between a 205 and 209. More free board, there is more room around the doghouse marginally larger bow section. The DD 205 has a better slalom wake than the '01 209 I have. My kids like the wake for wake boarding, I really miss the wake of my old 190.

zsqure
03-18-2014, 01:10 PM
Here's one for size comparison. 1988 ps190 and 2001 ps209.

mikeg205
03-18-2014, 02:28 PM
Unless your going to be competitive skiing the 205 is a better value in my opinion. The difference in wake is negligible. Even running thru the course - it's not like we're comparing the bump on a moomba or an 81 bayliner ;)

CoachK5
03-18-2014, 05:31 PM
Here's one for size comparison. 1988 ps190 and 2001 ps209.

Zsqure-
Your 190 is the same as my 190, even the same color.

I do appreciate all the feedback on this. I was worried mostly about the slalom wake at 15 or 22 off which is where I ski at. I don't really wake board but the kids do.

Right now I am looking at the '04 209 and just don't want to regret the change.

atihanyi
03-18-2014, 05:42 PM
A friend of mine on here (epnault) has a 209 and just bought an older 190 for skiing . We are course skiers and in my opinion skiing behind the 209 sucks . The wake is hard and it has a bump almost all the way back to 28 off . We have observed several good skiers behind it actually bracing themselves to hit the wake .It would probably be an ok boat for rec skiing but it would be hard to progress behind . I know there are those on here who love their 209's and I mean no insult to them but when a serious skier has one and buys an older 190 just for skiing that says something

Jerseydave
03-18-2014, 06:14 PM
What's your price range? You may be able to find a nice used 197, however it seems that a 205 will give you the best crossover performance (slalom and wakeboard)

Kyle
03-19-2014, 02:54 AM
A friend of mine on here (epnault) has a 209 and just bought an older 190 for skiing . We are course skiers and in my opinion skiing behind the 209 sucks . The wake is hard and it has a bump almost all the way back to 28 off . We have observed several good skiers behind it actually bracing themselves to hit the wake .It would probably be an ok boat for rec skiing but it would be hard to progress behind . I know there are those on here who love their 209's and I mean no insult to them but when a serious skier has one and buys an older 190 just for skiing that says something

I think this is hitting the nail on the head.

I have a '93 190, TxRiverRat has a '93 205, Travis X9 has the 2001 209/X9 hull.

The 190 skis the best in a ski course. The 205 skis a tick under the 190. Chine spray slightly more on the 205 so I can't rate them the same but the wake feels practically identical.

The 209/X9 is not even in the same ballpark as the other two boats listed. It is a fine machine for a recreation skier. I ski shortline and I have run shortline behind a 209. I braced myself all of the way through -28. The -32 and -35 passes were manageable but I would never credit the boat with ideal wakes. The inside features of a 209/X9 are perfect. The boat feels 2 times bigger than my 190 and it rides very well in rougher water. I really like driving the TravisX9 boat. I have countless hours helping him restore his boat. I really love the size and how it is NOT cramped or clostrophobic feeling. It drives like a dream and is perfect for a family who is into recreational sports.

If my heart was in slalom skiing and I wanted room then I would look at the 197 route. The 197 feels a lot bigger than the 205 yet a hair smaller than the 209/X9. It is wider and has a lot more storage than 190/205. You can have slalom wake for dad and sack it out for the kids. An empty 197 will ski as good as a 190 or 205. I prefer a 197 over all of the boats because there is no chine spray at -38 like there is on a 190/205. Taymc197 has a mighty fine tournament team that I ski behind as well.

As far as room, wake, and budget go the 205 will be the most affordable way to go.

If money is not an issue then here would be my choices in order
197
205 (rated on top of 190 just for the fact op has a family and kids wakeboard)
190
209/x9 (comes in last only bc the wake is not a desirable wake for course skiing but everything else in the boat is awesome)

46Chief
03-19-2014, 03:01 AM
My 209 wake looks scary at 26 mph. Your kids would never want to slalom.

zsqure
03-19-2014, 06:40 AM
Zsqure-
Your 190 is the same as my 190, even the same color.
I sold the 190 about this time last year to a young guy in Washington Pa.
We all miss the old boat for various reasons, wake and that ford V8 rumble are tops on the list.

shepherd
03-19-2014, 01:07 PM
As far as room, wake, and budget go the 205 will be the most affordable way to go.

If money is not an issue then here would be my choices in order
197
205 (rated on top of 190 just for the fact op has a family and kids wakeboard)
190
209/x9 (comes in last only bc the wake is not a desirable wake for course skiing but everything else in the boat is awesome)

+1

Kyle and Dave make a good point about room in the 197. My 197 has more room than my buddy's old 205. It appears to me that you should scratch the 209 off your list if you want to do some serious slalom skiing.

bret
03-19-2014, 01:36 PM
Both the 209 and the 210 have very similar wakes IMHO, which are recreational but both great roomy and great riding boats - that 210 rides damn nice even at speed with a big headwind and chop! You can take a 205 and keep the gas under 1/2 tank thru the course and it will darn near ski like a 190, well my friends 94 205 does. Haven't skied behind with the new tower on it but we'll see very soon.

h2oski89
03-19-2014, 02:51 PM
I wish I could disagree with the above comments on the X9/209. I picked mine up last summer and am a die hard slalom skier but I was up against a rock and hard place with a large family and friends and needing to get more people on the boat vs watching us from the dock! I knew I wasn't climbing into a rock solid slalom boat. So what I've learned is that I don't slalom with 8 people in the boat anymore, I shoot for around 1/4 tank of gas and lighten the load. I was pleased with the wake 22' off and up, 15' off had a pretty large bump at 32-34 mph. I really wanted the 197 but the extra room in the X9 is the payoff! With all that said I love the boat!

I've skied a 97' 205 and a 94' prostar in the course and both had great wakes.

epnault
03-19-2014, 04:04 PM
I hate to beat up my boat but all the comments are accurate. The bump on the 209 ski wake is big and hard even at speeds above 32mph and shorter lines. Below 32mph it is bad. My kids (11 and 8) have started to take interest in slalom skiing and I pull them at 26-28 mph and I swear the bump is about knee hieght at those speeds (scary). When my 11 year old started to ski more aggressively he took a bad fall and I refused to ski my boat. I have to also admit I believe this boat has held me back from progressing in my skiing too and thats why we bought a 190 this winter. Now overall, I love the look of the 209 on the water, the huge space, the ride and handling, surfing and a wakeboarding is pretty good, and the quality is top notch. Since we (family and guests) do everything on the water so we decided to keep our 209.

BriEOD
03-19-2014, 08:35 PM
I went from an 87' 190 to an 00 205DD. The most remarkable difference is the room. Aside from the under-the-bow storage, the 190 had no storage or room for additional people. I had to pile all of my equipment and coolers behind the driver's seat. Conversely, the 205 has storage in the trunk, under the observer's seat, and under all of the bow seats. Moreover, if you purchase a boat with a tower, as I did, you can put boards, skis, etc, in the rack(s). As for ski-ability, you commented you ski at 15-and 22-off, I doubt you will see much difference between your late model 190 and a 205 at these lengths. I run the course in my 205 and I'm not an accomplished enough skier to discern any appreciable difference from a friend of mine's 99 190. Moreover, I can wakeboard and wakesurf (using ballast) quite easily behind my 205, which can't be said for the 190.

As for the 205 vs 209 debate, the longevity of the hull really tells the story. The 205 hull is/was MC's longest and best manufactured platform (205, X1, X2, X-Star all used the hull at one time or another). The 209, on the other hand, was only around for a few years. It is slightly larger than the 205, but the reports are/were that the wake and versatility of the hull was not as effective as the 205. This certainly contributed to MC discontinuing the 209 and moving on to the 214.

I hope this adds some perspective to your inquiry. Happy hunting.

CoachK5
03-21-2014, 12:20 PM
Guys,
I really appreciate all the feed back. I'll keep looking for that right 205 or 197, but from the info presented the 209 just is not the boat I am looking for.

Now I just need for the ice to melt......

RMEngdahl
03-21-2014, 09:12 PM
MCBOC1 just posted about a good looking 1995 205 with low hours. Priced a little higher than you were after but worth checking out.