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Nick911
12-11-2011, 09:02 PM
Been spending some time on the Wakeworld forum and have noticed a definite MC-hating bias there. They seem to be the only manufacturer that people go out of their way to throw negative comments at.

Thoughts? Is this Wakeworld-specific or has anyone noticed this anywhere else in the industry? How do MC sales compare to other manufacturers?

CruisinGA
12-11-2011, 09:05 PM
Jealousy...

Jerseydave
12-11-2011, 09:14 PM
Ok, care to elaborate on these quality issues? Not saying every boat company makes a perfect boat without issues, and I'm sure other boats have issues as well.

agarabaghi
12-11-2011, 09:14 PM
envy.................

Nick911
12-11-2011, 09:20 PM
One would think that if it was a jealous thing the same amount of negativity would follow Super Air Nautiques or Wakesetters, which are comparable in "bling," appeal, cost, and wow factor.

CantRepeat
12-11-2011, 09:22 PM
Been spending some time on the Wakeworld forum and have noticed a definite MC-hating bias there. They seem to be the only manufacturer that people go out of their way to throw negative comments at.

Thoughts? Is this Wakeworld-specific or has anyone noticed this anywhere else in the industry? How do MC sales compare to other manufacturers?

Really?

Does this not surprise you at any level.

I want to write some crazy long rebuttal about this but it's not worth the effort.

I think I'll just have a beer, jump in the hot tub and look at the stars.

Nick911
12-11-2011, 09:22 PM
Specific quality issues? Lots said about the towers. They are having a field day over there regarding the release or lack thereof of the new Star.

mikeg205
12-11-2011, 09:24 PM
Those below always try to know off those at the top.... every manufacturer has some issues...

Nick911
12-11-2011, 09:26 PM
Really?

Does this not surprise you at any level.

I want to write some crazy long rebuttal about this but it's not worth the effort.

I think I'll just have a beer, jump in the hot tub and look at the stars.

Not surprised.

mastercraft06x2
12-11-2011, 09:27 PM
Regardless of what any one says about a mastercraft, all i have to say is best ski/wakeboard/surf boat out there. I would'nt swap my mastercraft out for anything other than another mastercraft " Held to a higher standard" get on my level.

CantRepeat
12-11-2011, 09:39 PM
Regardless of what any one says about a mastercraft, all i have to say is best ski/wakeboard/surf boat out there. I would'nt swap my mastercraft out for anything other than another mastercraft " Held to a higher standard" get on my level.

QFE!!!!!:D

mccobmd
12-11-2011, 11:12 PM
I do know that it is common to be unreasonably positive about what you have and unreasonably negative about it's competition making what you have seem even better and what someone else has seem even worse. It's call rationalization. Personally I don't have anything negative to say about any other boat or maker and understand that the only way my boat is perfect is that it is perfect for me and my needs. I tell everyone to look at all the boats out there and buy the one that is perfect for them.

mikeg205
12-11-2011, 11:17 PM
I do know that it is common to be unreasonably positive about what you have and unreasonably negative about it's competition making what you have seem even better and what someone else has seem even worse. It's call rationalization. Personally I don't have anything negative to say about any other boat or maker and understand that the only way my boat is perfect is that it is perfect for me and my needs. I tell everyone to look at all the boats out there and buy the one that is perfect for them.

+1 on this....this way the day you buy your boat is the happiest day of ownership and the saddest day is when you sell it...unless of course your upgrading to the right boat...:D

duckguy
12-11-2011, 11:36 PM
As a many many many time Mastercraft owner I think that the form over function theme that MC has taken and the price that comes with it has created a backlash. I have to say that ballast timers, tower issue after tower issue, vdig problems etc. in conjunction with the economy has caused people to look more at the KISS method. I have loved my MC but I have to say my 2011 Sanger is an awesome boat and if I were to buy a new wakeboat I would look at MB, Sanger etc. over MC

Nick911
12-11-2011, 11:43 PM
Can anyone comment on MC's sales compared to the other manufacturers? Are sales going up, down?

BrooksfamX2
12-12-2011, 12:01 AM
Been spending some time on the Wakeworld forum and have noticed a definite MC-hating bias there. They seem to be the only manufacturer that people go out of their way to throw negative comments at.

.......Thoughts?

My thought.......Stay off that forum..............:cool:

swatguy
12-12-2011, 12:13 AM
Take all 80's-2003 MC's in one group
Take 2004-present MC's in another.

Which do you think will have more issues? I could list issues that have been ongoing and received patched jobs over the past few years on their newer wakeboats. Hell just look at the first 3 pages in the general here. Almost all related to brand spanking new designs that have obviously not been looked over and tested in the right capacity. Then when an issue has become apparent rather then going back to the drawing board they just patch it and send it on its way. This is very disappointing to me having had Mc's in the family since 1984. Had one Nauti in there in 89.
In total we have had 15 MC's if you include my uncle's and aunt's boats as well.
While most of these issues are not directly related to the actual "core build quality" in relation that an MC is going to fall apart.... they are in my mind huge issues. MC still builds a quality boat...... the hull molds, extra backing plates, stainless hardware, extra supports in key areas, and killer wakes are all still tops. The quality issues are in their aftermarket options, towers, wiring, computer issues, fitment issues all mostly related to trying to create gimmicks and bling. Things to me just seemed to be rushed these days to keep ahead in the WOW factor rather then the quality factor.

Couldnt agree more with duckguy and if I recall he had one hell of a sexy 40th Star.

jwardenjr
12-12-2011, 01:06 AM
Love my 2012 X-25 ... and couldn't or wouldn't be happy with anything else ... no its not perfect but its good !

-V-
12-12-2011, 08:43 AM
I am going to have to second that, I have heard a lot of issues about the newer boats, but a 2002 and older are holding strong...............just saying.

CantRepeat
12-12-2011, 09:04 AM
I've got zero issues with my 06.

ski/hunt
12-12-2011, 09:12 AM
Not what MC intended on when opening a forum but my decision to keep my 96' vs. a new boat is based on what I read about them here....somewhere in the persuit of great wakeboard wakes the quality was left behind some...IMO--

bturner2
12-12-2011, 09:23 AM
Don't know too much about other brands but I do have a couple friends with BUs. Seems like they're having the same problems as everyone else.

As Swat Guys states the core boats are wonderful and I would argue better in build quality than any of the previous generation boats. It's all the toys that get you in trouble. Doesn't matter who's building them all the switches, computers and additional wiring that goes into making things whiz and bang just leave too many opportunities for failure. One only need to look at the flaky gauge sets used in the early 2000s to see a classic example as to how a simple system can be made into a nightmare of intermittent or non functional devices.

As to MC being any worse than the competition.... Not really. We're back to all the manufactures using the same vendors for their subsystems just like the computer industry. My friend's BU has been in the shop multiple times for their version of VDIG. The bubble decals have been replaced 3 times and he's had 2 cushions replaced. After looking at several CCs at the boat show last year I saw at least one problem on every boat that if I were buying it would have to be corrected before delivery. All these boats have grown too complicated and will most likely need some kind of warranty attention. It's just the nature of the beast when you put tons of toys/bling on any product. Want a care free boat? Buy a 190 skier with no options. That will be your best bet for a care free boat.

scott023
12-12-2011, 09:32 AM
I do know that it is common to be unreasonably positive about what you have and unreasonably negative about it's competition making what you have seem even better and what someone else has seem even worse. It's call rationalization. Personally I don't have anything negative to say about any other boat or maker and understand that the only way my boat is perfect is that it is perfect for me and my needs. I tell everyone to look at all the boats out there and buy the one that is perfect for them.

+2 Well stated sir.

scott023
12-12-2011, 09:34 AM
As a many many many time Mastercraft owner I think that the form over function theme that MC has taken and the price that comes with it has created a backlash. I have to say that ballast timers, tower issue after tower issue, vdig problems etc. in conjunction with the economy has caused people to look more at the KISS method. I have loved my MC but I have to say my 2011 Sanger is an awesome boat and if I were to buy a new wakeboat I would look at MB, Sanger etc. over MC

You'e frickin kidding, right? MB sports boats are rubbish. Period. I can't comment on Sanger, but if you think the MB boats have any edge on MC, that's beyond crazy. Just sayin.

Gofast
12-12-2011, 09:52 AM
I have a 95 Marastar, a 16 year old boat. I would put my boat up against any of the competitors boats of a similar time period. It's hard to compare new versus new, unless you are looking at bling factor etc.

What I can tell you , is that when I looked at other brands boats in the 10 year old plus department.... I didn't see very many.

I do see a lot of older MC running about with no issue.

Not a scientific approach, but I did look at getting a new boat in 2010. When I looked at the BU trade ins that were 5 years old, most would not hold a candle to my much older boat. That was before I recoverd the seats. ( lasted 14 years and looked really good till the seams split )

Rob

Sodar
12-12-2011, 10:06 AM
I think some people have blinders on from both sides of the coin. Blind loyalty is ridiculous and it is obvious that several members on this site have just that disease. I am a MasterCraft chearleader, just as much as the next guy, but these boats are far from perfect and each come with their issues. I also agree that the boats built 15 years ago will stand the test of time better than the boats built in the last decade. It is just a matter of technology and in some cases the technology and "innovations" being rushed to market too quickly.

On the flip side, the competitors boats are far from perfect and come with their own issues. Perhaps the issues can be overlooked to save almost a 1/4 of the price on your initial investment. I also believe that older technology (gauges in lieu of touch screens, 4 point towers in lieu of 2 points, simple vinyl designs in lieu of checkered/diamond patterns, etc.) can provide for great quality and longer service life. Time will tell.

As for the haters and the loyalists, I recommend that an open mind is kept. Do your research. Investigate deeper. Choose what you think is the right boat for you, but don't bash the other guy's boat in an attempt to justify that your ride is "the perfect boat".

GoneBoatN
12-12-2011, 10:26 AM
.... Choose what you think is the right boat for you, but don't bash the other guy's boat in an attempt to justify that your ride is "the perfect boat".

Well said and spot on IMHO. I still believe my choice was correct - for me. All boats, new, old various makes have pluses and minuses. Just like people. Unfortunately in life many people find the only way to elevate themselves is to put others down.

duckguy
12-12-2011, 11:34 AM
The MB is saw impressed me with its quality and for a stock wake I would say it's pretty legit. With that said I would still go Sanger though. I have been converted!

TallRedRider
12-12-2011, 11:49 AM
To get back to the OP's observation, Wakeworld has its share of MC haters, but MC is not the only one. Tige takes a beating every once in a while as well. I don't see much beating on other brands unless it is an MC owner striking out.

You could buy 2 new Sangers, MB's, Axis or Epic for the price of one Xstar, so naturally that results in some backlash. I personally couldn't choose to use my disposable income on more than 50K right now for a boat...unless I totally stopped taking any vacations, limited my going out to eat etc.

skishack90
12-12-2011, 11:49 AM
I have owned Malibu, CC, and Mastercraft. I currently own a 2007 Star and a 2008 197. I would not trade either of these boats for anything. Maybe I am an exception, but I have not had any problems with either of these boats. Keep in mind that I put about 300 hours a year on each boat. The only issue that I can think of is a bad fuel pump on the prostar, which happens, and a bad starter on the X-Star. In the boating world, those are hardly problems at all.
Too many people get into this sport, buy a boat, and expect it to function like a mercedes and never have any problems. What people do not understand anymore is that owning a boat comes with problems. Boats are problematic by nature. No matter how high the quality is, water is a tough environment for anything mechanical. Expect to have problems with any boat, because eventually you will have a problem. Guaranteed. What sets different boat companies apart is the severity and quantity of the problems faced. With Mastercraft, the problems are miniscule. As for other companies, my experience with Malibu was not as great as my experience with Mastercraft, but that is just how it worked our for me. What works for one, may not work for the other. Find what works for you and stick with it. Mastercraft works for me, so thats where I will be!

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 12:11 PM
I have owned Malibu, CC, and Mastercraft. I currently own a 2007 Star and a 2008 197. I would not trade either of these boats for anything. Maybe I am an exception, but I have not had any problems with either of these boats. Keep in mind that I put about 300 hours a year on each boat. The only issue that I can think of is a bad fuel pump on the prostar, which happens, and a bad starter on the X-Star. In the boating world, those are hardly problems at all.
Too many people get into this sport, buy a boat, and expect it to function like a mercedes and never have any problems. What people do not understand anymore is that owning a boat comes with problems. Boats are problematic by nature. No matter how high the quality is, water is a tough environment for anything mechanical. Expect to have problems with any boat, because eventually you will have a problem. Guaranteed. What sets different boat companies apart is the severity and quantity of the problems faced. With Mastercraft, the problems are miniscule. As for other companies, my experience with Malibu was not as great as my experience with Mastercraft, but that is just how it worked our for me. What works for one, may not work for the other. Find what works for you and stick with it. Mastercraft works for me, so thats where I will be!


lol...my mastercraft is more reliable than mu mercedes... mercedes have too many electronics now... still love my MC and MB - Mercedes that is.

-V-
12-12-2011, 12:29 PM
one thing i have noticed is that the new MC's have ALOT of electronics. i have never been in a boat with ballast or PP, But I love my boat. I know how to troubleshoot a problem because it is a simple set-up. i know eventually i want to add in ballast and PP, but for now i am very happy with my boat. :)

ksdaoski
12-12-2011, 12:30 PM
You'e frickin kidding, right? MB sports boats are rubbish. Period. I can't comment on Sanger, but if you think the MB boats have any edge on MC, that's beyond crazy. Just sayin.

Why are MB rubbish? Specific examples?

I ask as a former owner of MC, who's been thinking about only MC, Nautique, and MB, as viable options for the next boat.

thatsmrmastercraft
12-12-2011, 12:39 PM
You'e frickin kidding, right? MB sports boats are rubbish. Period. I can't comment on Sanger, but if you think the MB boats have any edge on MC, that's beyond crazy. Just sayin.

Why are MB rubbish? Specific examples?

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Thrall
12-12-2011, 12:40 PM
Only quality issue to speak of on my 96 or my 06 is the shoddy battery/stereo component (amps) install on the 06.

scott023
12-12-2011, 02:20 PM
I completely agree with Sodar. Every manufacturer has pros and cons. We here should be honest about both of those when it comes to MasterCrafts.


That being said, MB is not even close on build quality compared to CC, Mc and BU. :two cents:

scott023
12-12-2011, 02:25 PM
Why are MB rubbish? Specific examples?

I ask as a former owner of MC, who's been thinking about only MC, Nautique, and MB, as viable options for the next boat.

Those boays have more rattles and shakes than a babys toy bag. There are more than a couple MB owners around here that have had big issues with the electrical on them as well.


I personally don't think that a boat should make the noises those boats make in calm water. That, and the looks of them are less than desirable compared to several of the other manufacturers.

ksdaoski
12-12-2011, 02:28 PM
what years/models were the boats with the rattles and shakes? Tower shakes? Or beyond?

lettmeknow
12-12-2011, 02:34 PM
Build quality is only as good as how you take care of your boat. If you take care of it it will last regardless of brand. If you don't it will deteriorate. There's a 96' PS 190 down the street that's been sitting out on the elements uncovered for at least a year and it looks like crap. Everyone always talks about the backing plate, through bolt construction and so on.At the end of the day does all this really make MC that much better and cost more . Plenty of older BU's , Sangers, MB's etc that many folks on TT claim to be so inferior that are still look and run great.

scott023
12-12-2011, 02:48 PM
what years/models were the boats with the rattles and shakes? Tower shakes? Or beyond?

07 08 and a 10. Three different owners. Tower doesn't seem to be too bad, but there creaks come from the floor and the gunwhale areas.

bjames
12-12-2011, 04:01 PM
I used to be a Moomba owner before MC and I have to say you get what you pay for. The Moomba was a great boat that had it share of glitches (but what boat doesnt), but I have to say it is not in same leage as a MC.

All other boats have their weeknesses, take a look through the Moomba / Supra formus, you will see its no different than here. Lots of posts about praise, problems, complaints from other forums and questioning their investment.

I think MC has been a target due to its success and stature in the industry.

EA2010
12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
As a first-time boat buyer, I just went through the process of objectively evaluating all the various makes/models out there. I had absolutely no bias heading into my research - aside from talking to various people who already owned boats (none of them surf boats). The consensus seemed to be that Malibu was the market leader (in terms of sheer sales numbers) and that I should buy either a Wakesetter or a Centurion Enzo.

MC was always held out there (in peoples' minds) as the 'oh yeah, well if you can afford one' type boat.

As I looked into things, I was more drawn to the Tige lineup. To be honest, the RZ2 is probably the best surf boat out there when looking at the stock ballast setup from the factory. However, I am one of those guys who likes to dick around with things ... and I wanted to add after-market ballast to whatever boat I purchased.

Then I went to review the X-25. It was hands-down THE NICEST of all the boats I review. It's like a Ferrari compared to the other "Vettes" and "Camaros" out there.

CantRepeat
12-12-2011, 04:50 PM
As a first-time boat buyer, I just went through the process of objectively evaluating all the various makes/models out there. I had absolutely no bias heading into my research - aside from talking to various people who already owned boats (none of them surf boats). The consensus seemed to be that Malibu was the market leader (in terms of sheer sales numbers) and that I should buy either a Wakesetter or a Centurion Enzo.

MC was always held out there (in peoples' minds) as the 'oh yeah, well if you can afford one' type boat.

As I looked into things, I was more drawn to the Tige lineup. To be honest, the RZ2 is probably the best surf boat out there when looking at the stock ballast setup from the factory. However, I am one of those guys who likes to dick around with things ... and I wanted to add after-market ballast to whatever boat I purchased.

Then I went to review the X-25. It was hands-down THE NICEST of all the boats I review. It's like a Ferrari compared to the other "Vettes" and "Camaros" out there.

You do realize vettes have been eating ferrari's for lunch for a long long time right? lol

I hear yeah. I'm not a boat brand basher, well, ok, Tahoe's are like the Volkswagons of the water world. I can't stand them.

swatguy
12-12-2011, 04:59 PM
Tahoes are more like chevettes. ;)

76S&S
12-12-2011, 05:17 PM
I used to be a Moomba owner before MC and I have to say you get what you pay for. The Moomba was a great boat that had it share of glitches (but what boat doesnt), but I have to say it is not in same leage as a MC.

All other boats have their weeknesses, take a look through the Moomba / Supra formus, you will see its no different than here. Lots of posts about praise, problems, complaints from other forums and questioning their investment.

I think MC has been a target due to its success and stature in the industry.

I've been in a MC for over 30 years now, but if I pay a premium for the MC I would expect to have a lot less than if I had bought a boat that cost half the price.

I think that this is where a lot of the MC bashing is coming from on other forums. You pay a premium for a MC but you still have to deal with similar issues.

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 05:45 PM
Tahoes are more like chevettes. ;)

hopefully they won't be like pintos.....:cool:

FourFourty
12-12-2011, 06:06 PM
You do realize vettes have been eating ferrari's for lunch for a long long time right? lol


I had to jump in and say that just because some vettes are faster than some Ferraris, it does not make them a better car :D It is no different than comparing a MC to a MB. There are MBs out there that put out better wakes than certain MCs, but that doesnt change the fact that they are assembled with the cheapest and easiest to manufacture parts in the industry. The dash components are the same as a Cobalt :rolleyes:

Corvettes are no doubt awesome performers these days. I have a lot of respect for them! The Z06 is a track monster! But fit and finish, Materials used, and technology are garbage compared to an F-car.

And for the record. The 458 Italia stomps every vette, including the ZR1.... Even in a drag race..... And that is the "entry level F-car"

Dont take any offense to this post. None is meant. I just have a lot of respect for what a Ferrari is all about, and its not just drag racing. :D I just had to hop on my soap box for a minute.

Sorry for the thread jack

jwardenjr
12-12-2011, 06:14 PM
You'e frickin kidding, right? MB sports boats are rubbish. Period. I can't comment on Sanger, but if you think the MB boats have any edge on MC, that's beyond crazy. Just sayin.

2ND That one ... I tested the MB its nice for what it is but the wake was mushy and took a lot of ballast and the fit and finish far below that of the MC, Malibu or the Tige'. It is a fancy low cost production boat.

EA2010
12-12-2011, 06:31 PM
You do realize vettes have been eating ferrari's for lunch for a long long time right? lol

Well, I own a De Tomaso Pantera ... so I can eat either!!!

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 07:23 PM
I used to be a Moomba owner before MC and I have to say you get what you pay for. The Moomba was a great boat that had it share of glitches (but what boat doesnt), but I have to say it is not in same leage as a MC.

All other boats have their weeknesses, take a look through the Moomba / Supra formus, you will see its no different than here. Lots of posts about praise, problems, complaints from other forums and questioning their investment.

I think MC has been a target due to its success and stature in the industry.

what were the major differences you noticed...if boaters are thinking investment - they already made a mistake....lol...

When you're at the top you have to work to stay there, and it's easy to fall. I used to work for Oce - a dutch digital printer manufacturer...the top on the planet...they made some fatal moves and Canon not only ate their lunch but now owns them.

We'll see if simplicity will return to the dashes in MC boats....unless there's enough boaters in the top 1% of wage earners (entrepreneurs too) to keep the bleeding edge of electronic interior toys evolving further....

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 07:30 PM
I've been in a MC for over 30 years now, but if I pay a premium for the MC I would expect to have a lot less than if I had bought a boat that cost half the price.

I think that this is where a lot of the MC bashing is coming from on other forums. You pay a premium for a MC but you still have to deal with similar issues.

It's still about value....happy boat owners that I know like to tinker with their boats. If you don't buy the right boat - you fall into the category of the two happiest days of boat ownership is day bought and day sold. I doubt Malibu, CC, MC, or others will get a bailout...the market will shake all this out.

Boaters with means to buy new boats frequently will drive all this...MC only builds hundreds of boats, so that's not too many customers to snatch.

I will always be a used boat guy...being from that side of the tracks.. :D - so I love simple form function and a whole lot of fun!!!

erkoehler
12-12-2011, 07:48 PM
It's still about value....happy boat owners that I know like to tinker with their boats. If you don't buy the right boat - you fall into the category of the two happiest days of boat ownership is day bought and day sold. I doubt Malibu, CC, MC, or others will get a bailout...the market will shake all this out.

Boaters with means to buy new boats frequently will drive all this...MC only builds hundreds of boats, so that's not too many customers to snatch.

I will always be a used boat guy...being from that side of the tracks.. :D - so I love simple form function and a whole lot of fun!!!

They build thousands of boats, and they are already beginning to adjust the "standard" options included. Tower option, dash option, ballast options, etc......all the way down to trailer fenders.

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 08:57 PM
They build thousands of boats, and they are already beginning to adjust the "standard" options included. Tower option, dash option, ballast options, etc......all the way down to trailer fenders.

Hoovers has Mastercraft Boats at about 24 Million dollars a year... if you take an average cost of a boat to a dealer of 40K then production is about 600 per year - but if you that include McBc the revenue is guessed at 50 million so the production can go up to 1250 at 40K cost per boat to dealers. 40K including cost of money, parts, cost of sale etc. Below is a chart from Hoovers about MC's competitors...

erkoehler
12-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Sorry man, 600 is way off. I don't remember the exact number but it was posted here before. I want to say that 3,000 was the ballpark max production for the factory.

mikeg205
12-12-2011, 09:58 PM
ok.... no big deal....

JohnE
12-12-2011, 10:05 PM
Please...IMO MC takes a beating on forums because they have the highest price tag and are supposed to be the "best". They are great boats and so are CC, BU, etc. People get their jollies by bashing a certain brand. F*** me. I like all inboard boats and watersports in general. OK, I'll give. My MC 214 sucks donkey balls and I'd rather a pull behind whatever inboard you are rolling in. Gas it up and pick me up at the dock with a full cooler. You win.

Stefan
12-13-2011, 02:19 AM
You do realize vettes have been eating ferrari's for lunch for a long long time right? lol
.

With the last two generations vette and no curves in sight...maybe...but you don't need an expensive Fiat to loose a C4 in the first corner...

Bouyhead
12-13-2011, 07:12 AM
Please...IMO MC takes a beating on forums because they have the highest price tag and are supposed to be the "best". They are great boats and so are CC, BU, etc. People get their jollies by bashing a certain brand. F*** me. I like all inboard boats and watersports in general. OK, I'll give. My MC 214 sucks donkey balls and I'd rather a pull behind whatever inboard you are rolling in. Gas it up and pick me up at the dock with a full cooler. You win.

Nice post John, pretty much sums it up. I'll consider this thread closed!

______________________

______________________

CantRepeat
12-13-2011, 07:16 AM
With the last two generations vette and no curves in sight...maybe...but you don't need an expensive Fiat to loose a C4 in the first corner...

C6.R :D:D:D

Quinten
12-13-2011, 11:08 AM
It still is a piece of electronics and mechanics so it can brake or get out off function.
It's like you buy a Roll's royce you can still run flat or without fuel. You still can break your windshield that is beeing hit with a stone from other cars. Even the electronics on a roll's royce can break.
So it's just a matter off where you are happy with. If you're happy with a low cost boat, simply matarials and no name. Or you want high qeulity and a high cost boat, with some issues wich can happen to every one. It's you choice.

JohnE
12-13-2011, 11:42 AM
Sorry man, 600 is way off. I don't remember the exact number but it was posted here before. I want to say that 3,000 was the ballpark max production for the factory.

Peak production was 07 I believe and the number topped 3000. Granted they are way down, but not down to 600. Please they put out 125 WTT's and have to do more standard 197/ X7's than that. So that puts you over 250 for just one model.

-V-
12-13-2011, 11:46 AM
is there a way to find out how many they produce a year?

willyt
12-13-2011, 02:03 PM
I was quoted around 1600 boats a year

-V-
12-13-2011, 02:07 PM
where do the old parted out boats go? i have looked all over for a boat junk yard yet i can not find one. any ideas?

captain planet
12-13-2011, 02:13 PM
Peak production was 07 I believe and the number topped 3000. Granted they are way down, but not down to 600. Please they put out 125 WTT's and have to do more standard 197/ X7's than that. So that puts you over 250 for just one model.

For some perspective the year the Maristar 200/X-2 was released there were about 700 built.

swatguy
12-13-2011, 02:28 PM
I understand completely how every other boat has issues. However every other mfg is the one marketing the that they are superior by far in quality. 100k top of line boats should not be experiencing the same issues issues as 45k boats on a regular basis and in sone cases more often. We all agree that boats will have issues.
However if I claim to be superior in every element I sure as heck wouldn't expect the same crappy tower issues to run for 5 years. The rack issues to take 4 yrs to be solved. I wouldn't expect a new hull in an X2 to walk at ski speeds and take 5yrs for the problem to be solved. That's not superior engeering and is def not worth the superior price to most. It's a lack of attention to the finer details in my opinion which is what we all are paying for. No boat on the market is going to just up an fall apart so its the little things that set things apart and mc is failing in my opinion oj the little things market causing big things to happen.

captain planet
12-13-2011, 02:32 PM
what were the major differences you noticed...if boaters are thinking investment - they already made a mistake....lol...

When you're at the top you have to work to stay there, and it's easy to fall. I used to work for Oce - a dutch digital printer manufacturer...the top on the planet...they made some fatal moves and Canon not only ate their lunch but now owns them.

We'll see if simplicity will return to the dashes in MC boats....unless there's enough boaters in the top 1% of wage earners (entrepreneurs too) to keep the bleeding edge of electronic interior toys evolving further....

Don't count on it. I have had several conversations with my buddy about all the electronic controls in the boats and discussions like this one that questions their reliability/replacment. I sent him the link to the other thread, "Too Much Technology" thread, because after reading it I thought there were enough important issues and questions from MC owners that really needed to get back directly to MC. I have had several conversations with him about this because, hey, I'm old school. I love my 98 and the simple controls and everything still works like the day I bought it, so I'm hesitant to welcome the new electronics in boats.....in a WET environment!!! Without going into detail, mostly because my lunch is over and I dont' have time, the new electronics are getting better and better, the way ballast tanks are being filled is changing with respect to contols, and electronic controls have been around for a while, they are now just on steroids.

Here is an example of just how far this is going. Somebody made the comment on the other thread about showing facebook on the screen of the digital display.....and really, I kinda thought ***!!! I feel dirty just typing facebook, why do I have to have it in a new boat. But, here is where this can go.

Captain Planet has a new 2012 197 on his lake in his boat lift. For some reason he has an error code limps back to his dock or gets towed back and puts his boat in his lift. So, Captain Planet has to go to work on Monday....what a hastle to pull a boat to the dealer when it is at the lift away from the ramp, etc. etc. So Monday Captain Planet calls the dealer and lets them know there is something wrong. The dealer connects with the boat via wireless internet and finds the code. Code "A1" is problem "X" which requires component "B2" or "C3". So, the dealer gets said components, goes to the lift, fixes the problem in one trip, and Captain Planet arrives at his dock on Friday night to a repaired boat that was done in one trip from the MC service guy rather than 2 trips and takes several footing runs as the sun sets and then puts back to his dock with a cold one in hand as the moon rises.

I don't have time to go into rider specifications and set-ups right now, but maybe another time.

Pretty cool......and this is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm still not much of a fan of all the electronics, like I said, I'm old school...but I can see the potential and realize that one day I will probably appreciate them.

jhall0711
12-13-2011, 05:10 PM
This I guess could go in the New Technology thread, But the reason when I went searchin for a boat I looked at MasterCraft only is back in the day they were "held to a higher standard". Look at all the boats built in the 80's and see which ones are still around. Majority, that have not had to have major reconstruction; stingers ETC are going to be MasterCrafts. This is beacuse the build quality then was amazing and was technologically ahead of its time. These no crap simplistic designs are what ensured that these boats are still in operation today and ensure that my 89' can still pulls as well as some brand new boats. I guess what i'm saying is that we see now the quality that was used back then and will not truely be able to grasp what qaulity is being used now until our kids are looking at their first boats and are eyeing "ancient" 2005 x'2s. Although I dont think all this fancy crap all the boats come with now will hold up, there is no way of telling until the boat is almost 20 years old. I guess if in 20 years they are still holding and all the gismos and pop up screens are still working while all the other cheaper brands are not in operation at all, MasterCraft was still being built at a higher standard.

mikeg205
12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Peak production was 07 I believe and the number topped 3000. Granted they are way down, but not down to 600. Please they put out 125 WTT's and have to do more standard 197/ X7's than that. So that puts you over 250 for just one model.


I just ran some numbers based on Hoover's Business Information - MC is private so that number could be way off. Hoovers stated 24 million for the Mastercraft business unit and 50 million overall... anyway its really unimportant to me.

I love my 1995 Mastercraft...and would not own anything else...as of right now..

mikeg205
12-13-2011, 06:08 PM
Don't count on it. I have had several conversations with my buddy about all the electronic controls in the boats and discussions like this one that questions their reliability/replacment. I sent him the link to the other thread, "Too Much Technology" thread, because after reading it I thought there were enough important issues and questions from MC owners that really needed to get back directly to MC. I have had several conversations with him about this because, hey, I'm old school. I love my 98 and the simple controls and everything still works like the day I bought it, so I'm hesitant to welcome the new electronics in boats.....in a WET environment!!! Without going into detail, mostly because my lunch is over and I dont' have time, the new electronics are getting better and better, the way ballast tanks are being filled is changing with respect to contols, and electronic controls have been around for a while, they are now just on steroids.

Here is an example of just how far this is going. Somebody made the comment on the other thread about showing facebook on the screen of the digital display.....and really, I kinda thought ***!!! I feel dirty just typing facebook, why do I have to have it in a new boat. But, here is where this can go.

Captain Planet has a new 2012 197 on his lake in his boat lift. For some reason he has an error code limps back to his dock or gets towed back and puts his boat in his lift. So, Captain Planet has to go to work on Monday....what a hastle to pull a boat to the dealer when it is at the lift away from the ramp, etc. etc. So Monday Captain Planet calls the dealer and lets them know there is something wrong. The dealer connects with the boat via wireless internet and finds the code. Code "A1" is problem "X" which requires component "B2" or "C3". So, the dealer gets said components, goes to the lift, fixes the problem in one trip, and Captain Planet arrives at his dock on Friday night to a repaired boat that was done in one trip from the MC service guy rather than 2 trips and takes several footing runs as the sun sets and then puts back to his dock with a cold one in hand as the moon rises.

I don't have time to go into rider specifications and set-ups right now, but maybe another time.

Pretty cool......and this is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm still not much of a fan of all the electronics, like I said, I'm old school...but I can see the potential and realize that one day I will probably appreciate them.

Now that's cool - wireless hookup to boat to read computer error...... I know there are coating for circuit boards used in harsh environments... Its the used market that makes me wonder...I don't think I'll ever have new...(unless I can recover from being scammed by a friend last decade) - so I hope I can get those cool electronic parts on the 2011-2012 PS's on 2021-2022... and that like all technology the prices will be way low. I may not care I will be in my 60's then :D

Sullivan
12-13-2011, 10:02 PM
The 197 is still a very simplistic boat. That is what drove me back to Mastercraft, away from Malibu. I absolutely love my 197s they use toggle switches, analog gauges and dedicated switches for the heater, shower, boot soap pump, lights etc. The 197 is the BEST built 3-event boat on the market.

Any of my 197 WTTs will still run and function just like the first day I drove it 10, 15 or more years down the road. I really do not think Mastercraft is going to mess with this on the next 3-Event boat either. At least I hope.

tex
12-14-2011, 07:08 AM
The 197 is still a very simplistic boat. That is what drove me back to Mastercraft, away from Malibu. I absolutely love my 197s they use toggle switches, analog gauges and dedicated switches for the heater, shower, boot soap pump, lights etc. The 197 is the BEST built 3-event boat on the market.

Any of my 197 WTTs will still run and function just like the first day I drove it 10, 15 or more years down the road. I really do not think Mastercraft is going to mess with this on the next 3-Event boat either. At least I hope.

Agreed-My 02 drives like brand new-Now the skins are a different story!

willyt
12-14-2011, 09:46 AM
We can still hate on chaparral when they try and say I/O's are better than inboards right? Haters gotta have somethin to hate.
Haha

mikeg205
12-14-2011, 10:47 AM
We can still hate on chaparral when they try and say I/O's are better than inboards right? Haters gotta have somethin to hate.
Haha

good one...