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Lakeside09
11-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Just built my boat garage and it is 21ft wide by 27ft long... concrete floor with a garage door... built with tin and it does not have any insulation currently. It has no windows and is air tight. I am looking for recommendations to the most cost efficient heater to keep it above freezing in there... Trying to fight off the winter months of TN. :D

davidstan
11-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Just built my boat garage and it is 21ft wide by 27ft long... concrete floor with a garage door... built with tin and it does not have any insulation currently. It has no windows and is air tight. I am looking for recommendations to the most cost efficient heater to keep it above freezing in there... Trying to fight off the winter months of TN. :D

How come? Did you not drain the block?

Lakeside09
11-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Yes I am going to winterize... I just like the satisfaction of an above freezing garage.

CantRepeat
11-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Without insulation you are pissing into the wind. You'd be better off doing the insulation and a 40 watt bulb under the oil pan.

Lakeside09
11-09-2011, 12:46 PM
Nah I can't agree with that statement... in an air tight garage and a sufficient heater the garage would stay warm through the night. I am just trying to see a recommendation on what heater another boat owner is using rather than going into lowes and asking someone. And yeah I know the light bulb trick.

Maybe if your up north but TN winters as a whole aren't terrible bad... it gets cold don't get me wrong but usually up above freezing by mid day. I am not looking to make it 70... just up in the 40's to 50's if I want to go down to the garage and work on the boat...

JimN
11-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Just built my boat garage and it is 21ft wide by 27ft long... concrete floor with a garage door... built with tin and it does not have any insulation currently. It has no windows and is air tight. I am looking for recommendations to the most cost efficient heater to keep it above freezing in there... Trying to fight off the winter months of TN. :D

Heavy insulation, including under the slab and good seals on the doors is the best way to go. Even if you get a couple of days of 20 degree temperatures, a warm slab and almost no heat loss from the walls and roof means the boat will be OK, even if it's not heated. As long as the door isn't opened, it should be fine. I wouldn't use a propane torpedo heater because everything cold will be wet from the condensation- direct-fire heaters cause a lot of moisture to be released into the heated space. A Modine-style heater or an on-wall gas or propane heater with indirect heat is pretty efficient, small and they can be bought for $500 or less. If the temperature is kept at about 40 degrees, it won't run much, but nothing will freeze, either.

Call around- it may not be too late to add in-floor radiant heating.

ksdaoski
11-09-2011, 01:13 PM
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26

CantRepeat
11-09-2011, 01:54 PM
Nah I can't agree with that statement... in an air tight garage and a sufficient heater the garage would stay warm through the night. I am just trying to see a recommendation on what heater another boat owner is using rather than going into lowes and asking someone. And yeah I know the light bulb trick.

Maybe if your up north but TN winters as a whole aren't terrible bad... it gets cold don't get me wrong but usually up above freezing by mid day. I am not looking to make it 70... just up in the 40's to 50's if I want to go down to the garage and work on the boat...

You don't have to agree, free country and all. :D

But really, tin walls 21x27x12(?) = 6000sq feet or air space that has an R value of what .6 even when air tight.

You'll spend a butt load of cash trying to keep it above freezing whereas if you insulate it now you'd probably not need a heating source to keep it above freezing.

It might cost more upfront but you'll save in the long run. Sure, I don't answer your question about what heater to use, but I am trying to offer help in your end result. Sorry.

atlps190
11-09-2011, 02:08 PM
I did two of these (the 750W / 1500W model)...one on either side of the garage...

http://www.broan.com/display/router.asp?ProductID=2217

I have a detached, standard 2-car width by 27 feet deep garage with unfinished walls & ceiling that I sealed up tight.

I know I lose a bit of heat because it's not insulated, but when I've gone out there before dawn when the outside temperature is below freezing, both heaters have kept it at least 40 degrees inside.

I always drain / winterize, but like you, I like keeping the boats (and gear) a bit warmer.

-T.

Lakeside09
11-09-2011, 02:10 PM
Yeah I do agree insulation is the ABSOLUTE best way to go... just haven't got to that part yet and winter in sneaking up... I also have another 2 car insulated garage... and it would never freeze in there but the door height to it is what is the killer... The X1 tower is a little different as when the tower folds forward the legs are straight up in the air... and I don't want to take it apart.

Double D
11-09-2011, 02:26 PM
My new garage is 28' wide and 27' deep with an attic and I installed this unit:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=gas+garage+heater&hl=en&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS354US365&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1440&bih=813&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7529563176488031963&sa=X&ei=KNK6TvKhIcnn0QG8--TeCQ&ved=0CL8BEPMCMAg
It says liquid propane but I have the natural gas model. Paid about $260 ish....

This is my second unit I have had, the first being in my 3-car garage. I also had no insulation in the ceiling in this 'stand alone' garage for the first month or two before I got it drywalled and insulation blown in. It worked pretty hard so I would reccomend getting some insulation in there as soon as possible. I dont heat the attic area with this, just the 27' x 28' x 11' area.

BMDWillyZ
11-09-2011, 03:08 PM
My cousin has used these in the past. They work good.

http://www.modine.com/v2portal/page/portal/modine/modineMarketsDefault/modine_com/markets/building_HVAC/market_level_3_content_013.htm

Ole Miss Rebels
11-09-2011, 03:32 PM
i did the same thing i never winterize as i ride yearround. i have an lp heater mounted on the wall about 8 feet off the floor. i don't want a gas flame down low where fuel fumes might accumulate. the heater is a blue-flame stule with a thermostat. the coldest it has ever gotten in there is around 45. also, as a backup heat source, i have two electric heaters with thermostats that i have set on 2 (they go up to ten). they would only come on if the gas heater malfunctioned or ran out of fuel for some odd reason.

Lakeside09
11-09-2011, 03:39 PM
What electric heaters are you using?... I'd rather not have a flame in there either...

cbryan70
11-09-2011, 04:04 PM
i did the same thing i never winterize as i ride yearround. i have an lp heater mounted on the wall about 8 feet off the floor. i don't want a gas flame down low where fuel fumes might accumulate. the heater is a blue-flame stule with a thermostat. the coldest it has ever gotten in there is around 45. also, as a backup heat source, i have two electric heaters with thermostats that i have set on 2 (they go up to ten). they would only come on if the gas heater malfunctioned or ran out of fuel for some odd reason.

how much LP does the heater go through. I would have a fairly long run to run a gas line to my garage and was debating doing a LP tank. I would only use the heater when I was working in there but was worried it would burn alot of fuel.

Ole Miss Rebels
11-09-2011, 04:17 PM
how much LP does the heater go through. I would have a fairly long run to run a gas line to my garage and was debating doing a LP tank. I would only use the heater when I was working in there but was worried it would burn alot of fuel.

the lp heater has a thermostat and only comes on when it gets below 5o degrees. all it does is keep a blanket of warm air above the boat but that is enough to keep it from freezing in there my shed is probably 16 feet high with two 12' X 18' roll up doors. there is also a vent on the roof but i can pull it shut with a chain. it sill leaks air though as i can see sunlight leaking in around the louvres. the shed is pretty big (20 X 40 X 16) so there is a lot of air to heat. i reckon it uses around 100 gallons of lp per month in december, jan and feb. still, it is worth it to me to have my boat ready to go at a moments notice and still have it protected down to the single digits outside temp. the heaters are just standard 1500 watt quartz heaters from wallmart. one on each side of the boat at the transome. they come on at 50 degrees too. this is the first year of using the electric heaters along with the lp blueflame heater so i suspect the lp consumption will come down a little but my electircity may go up a little too. still, i like having three heaters in there (one lp and two electric) in the event of a failure of one. the electric heaters were only $50 each and are fan forced with thermosats. the lp heater is plumbed into the 250 gallon tank that is outside the shed and used for the house and the boatshed. i keep heat on in the house too so i am not sure how to figure which uses more but i think they are about equal. the shed is totally insulated and so are both rollup doors. i imagine it is nice and toasy up at the ceiling but i don't want an lp open flame heater down on the floor with gasoline fumes in the shed. i believe the lp heater is 20,000 btu which is not too large.

Hammer
11-09-2011, 04:23 PM
My garage is 32 by 44 with 13 foot ceilings. I do not need a heater and have never winterized my boat. Spend the money on insulation and you will save way more in the long run. Any time I get worried, when the temperature drops for an extended period, I use a six foot baseboard unit and it has never dropped below freezing in there. I do have insulated garage doors r-9, r-13 walls, and r-30 in the ceiling.

JohnE
11-09-2011, 06:46 PM
My cousin has used these in the past. They work good.

http://www.modine.com/v2portal/page/portal/modine/modineMarketsDefault/modine_com/markets/building_HVAC/market_level_3_content_013.htm

That is exactly what I was going to recommend. If garage is detached he may need a bottle of propane set outside.

Lars
11-09-2011, 06:51 PM
This is what I've seen in some garages, but again it probably wouldn't do much if there's no insulation.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXEZV/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00064NURU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1TFC7HPSS1AYMGEF88Z6

kstumpenhorst
11-09-2011, 09:26 PM
Best garage heater ever is a radiant tube heater. No moving air and warms everything in the garage not just the air so if you have to open the door it doesnt lose all the heat

Lakeside09
11-09-2011, 10:19 PM
Probably going to be looking at a Kerosene Heater... also current my boat garage temp is 55 and the outside air temp is 48... so I am slightly pleased with that.

Tomi
11-10-2011, 02:14 AM
Insulation is a given, but in any case I would use a heat pump to heat it. Little costly (at least here) to buy and install, but cost efficient to run, easy to set to run to maintain any temperature and will not put your barn in flames. And can be used in summer to cool the same space if necessary.

davidstan
11-10-2011, 07:20 AM
Best garage heater ever is a radiant tube heater. No moving air and warms everything in the garage not just the air so if you have to open the door it doesnt lose all the heat

X2 ^^^^^^^^^^

JimN
11-10-2011, 09:40 AM
This is what I've seen in some garages, but again it probably wouldn't do much if there's no insulation.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXEZV/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00064NURU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1TFC7HPSS1AYMGEF88Z6

Being in Wisconsin, my meter would turn into a flying saucer- WE Energies rapes us every chance they get.

JimN
11-10-2011, 09:41 AM
Best garage heater ever is a radiant tube heater. No moving air and warms everything in the garage not just the air so if you have to open the door it doesnt lose all the heat

Have you seen any of these with reasonable prices?

gatorguy
11-10-2011, 09:58 AM
Has anyone tried the electric engine blankets? A friend was telling me about them, but I've never seen them. I don't have a garage yet, and am still trying to ski in Oklahoma. We are dipping into the low 30's overnight, so I just keep draining the block after each use. I'm afraid to leave water in when it is freezing, but would love another option besides draining. It also seems a little safer than a light bulb.

Quinten
11-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Insulation is a given, but in any case I would use a heat pump to heat it. Little costly (at least here) to buy and install, but cost efficient to run, easy to set to run to maintain any temperature and will not put your barn in flames. And can be used in summer to cool the same space if necessary.

indeed that is what I would suggest to, whe have a garden house where all the ski stuff is in and its from wood in the winter its 20C on heating and in the summer 22C on cooling.
It may be expensive to install but you put 1 kw energy in and get around 2-4 kw depending on wich cality out.

Miss Rita
11-10-2011, 12:15 PM
I have an attached, unheated four car garage that's heavily insulated. In the middle of January when temps are around zero it dips down to about 28-30 degrees in the garage; it's passively heated by heat escaping from the house. Typically the temp in the garage is about 40-45 degrees.

It's just an example of what good insulation can do for you.

If I wanted to heat it I would use a gas space heater.

Thrall
11-10-2011, 03:33 PM
Being in Wisconsin, my meter would turn into a flying saucer- WE Energies rapes us every chance they get.

Tell me about it! My place in Park Falls. 2200sf, VERY well insulated. Has an elect heat storage furnace, off peak hours re-charge, etc. Whole house is elect, no natural gas service.
Month of Oct, the power bill was $190 and that included 2 weeks being occupied (2 warmest ever weeks in Oct BTW) no heat running except 1 day when I grouted tile and it was cool and rainy and 2 weeks unoccupied, heat at 45deg. F%*&king rapists!

To the OP, without beating the insulation horse anymore to death, you already know the heat will run full time if it's cold out. I've had radiant gas heater on a thermostat, works very well, cheap to install if there's gas in the garage.
Also have a couple elct 240V wall/ceiling mount. Can find them at Northern Tool. Not too expensive and heat an insulated garage easy, not sure how they'd do out in the open. Don't know the cost of running either one.

ctjahn
11-10-2011, 09:43 PM
Just my experience...

Dad has a newer heavily insulated 40 x 60 metal shop (20 x 60 heated). His bill for year round use in Wisconsin using propane is $350 (using a big tank that they come and fill once a year)... He keeps it around 50 when not working in it; 60 when working in it.

I have an OLD 1940s detached garage (20 x 50); Stick-built; somewhat poorly insulated low ceiling. Only heated when working in it at 70 degrees or so (I typically spend the weekend and a day or two a week; about 40 - 50 hours a week). Temp averages around 40 - 50 depending on how much time I spend out there. Costs me about $350 - 600 a winter in propane depending on use using 100 pound tanks which cost a lot more to fill then using a service. (Converted old home furnace)

Kerosine is horrible. I worked in a kerosine garage for a few years and my wife wouldnt come near me after working in the garage... Dont miss it....

cj