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  #21  
Old 07-03-2006, 11:43 AM
Farmer Ted's Avatar
Farmer Ted Farmer Ted is offline
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Boat: 1998 Prostar 190
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some info on prop cavitation
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File Type: pdf cavitate.pdf (393.5 KB, 183 views)
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2006, 06:34 PM
xsvfooter xsvfooter is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Boat: 1990 Tri-Star 190 open bow w/454
Location: Batavia, IL
Posts: 16
I have a 1990 version in open bow. The rudder showed the exact cavitation burn. The first thing you need to do is pitch that oem prop. It's a really small SS four blade that requires a brass hub adapter. If you lose that hub adapter...your toast. I heard you can't buy it anymore. I bought the boat with 165hrs on it and replaced the rudder and prop within 200hrs. Running a different prop for over 360 hours (560 total on the boat) I have some cavitation burn, but nothing like I was getting with the OEM prop.

I have two other props that I run.
The first is an OJ Force 4 13x14 four blade. I had OJ add additional cup to bring my RPM's down. The boat handles great and gets great hole shot. I foot a lot and the table is nice and soft with that prop. I have no problem deep water starting 4 footers (lots of banging obviously). It still rev's around 5300, higher than I'd like to see. Con - not a great big lake cruising prop. I have to run it pretty hard to cruise at a reasonable speed. That causes the 454 to eat lots of gas.

I just bought an ACME 431 13x13. I spent a week on Table Rock Lake in MO running this prop. It's silky smooth. Hole shot doesn't feel quite as strong (nothing scientific so it may actually be the same), but I don't have to run it as hard to cruise. I burned alot less gas with this prop. I think I have more top end, but I didn't use GPS to compare. I can still over rev it in the 5300 range. One additional benefit, it seemed to handle rough water better. I think to boat has a tendancy to ride higher in the water which might aid in the rough water ride. A con is it seemed to slightly porpoise with a heavy towing load (84" multi rider tube) when below slalom speeds with this prop. It may have just been some rollers, not 100% sure it was an actual porpoise.

All that being said, I'm keeping the ACME and it will be my lake prop. I mostly ski in a shallow river and don't go great distances so I use the OJ on the river. The down side to both props are they are Nibral. The river I ski in is extremely shallow. Never any large boulder strikes, but sand and gravel skims do occur. The Nibral just doesn't hold up to minor taps. I'm looking for a SS prop for the river since getting the OJ tuned up 1-2 times per summer is getting expensive. Anybody have any experience with the SS cutter?
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2006, 09:03 PM
viabill viabill is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Boat: 1989 Barefoot 190
Location: Southeast
Posts: 30
xsvfooter- It's great to hear from someone who actually has another B/F 190. I'm going to take your advice and change over to the ACME. It looks like I have another issue to fix, also. My 190 tops out at about 4200 RPM @ 45 mph, but it should turn 5000 to 5300 RPM, as your does. I attributed the low RPM to the odd-ball prop that I thought was aftermarket, but now that I know it's OEM, I likely need a tune-up or something.
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  #24  
Old 08-02-2006, 11:49 AM
xsvfooter xsvfooter is offline
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Boat: 1990 Tri-Star 190 open bow w/454
Location: Batavia, IL
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You should be getting way more than 4500 RPMs. My engine is extremely strong and I'm always concerned with over reving. I like to keep it below 5200, but depending on which prop and condition of the prop I touch 5400 at WOT. With the ACME 431, I'm pretty sure I touching at least 50mph, likely 52ish.

I've had this boat since 98 and have lots of lessons learned. Another upgrade was replacing the standard ignition with breakerless. I actually bought the whole distributor assembly. ($173 at the time from dim) Quite easy, just pull the old distributor out, drop in the new one, and time it.

I had a winterization brain cramp two years ago that caused a cracked block. After opening the petcock, I didn't poke it with a hanger. Sand in the petcock caused water to stay in it. I created a temporary closed cooling system to run Moroso Ceramic Seal through the block. It sealed the crack and I ran an entire summer on the motor. I was just fearful it would let loose at a bad moment. Last winter I had the motor rebuilt with a new block. Since I had the motor out I also replaced the carpet. The new motor runs great, but I now have a slight leak at the rear main seal. Not a major repair in terms of part cost, but I do need to pull the motor out this winter to replace the seal.

Are you getting a nice blue puff of smoke when you start it after the engine has been running? The valve stem guides on the heads aren't nurled down to allow for rubber valve stem seals. I had the valve stem guides cut down on the heads to allow clearance for the rubber seals when I had the new block built. No more blue puff. It's not worth doing if your not having any other work done.
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  #25  
Old 08-03-2006, 08:38 AM
viabill viabill is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Boat: 1989 Barefoot 190
Location: Southeast
Posts: 30
More good input, xvs. I'm going to check out the RPM situation this weekend. What kind of Elect distributor did you get? The guys at Indmar told me thay have a kit that includes a GM dist., wires, etc. that is a drop-in for ~$375.
No valve seal smoke, yet, but I do get black smoke from a rich condition when starting the engine after the engine is thoroughly warmed up and we're doing lots of stop & start with changing skiers, etc. My only thought is to change both needle & seats in the Holley. Have you had any carb issues?
Did you have any trouble finding a replacement block? I understand these are 4-bolt main blocks and finding a MarkIV (old) performance block could be difficult and would be pricey.
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  #26  
Old 08-03-2006, 12:06 PM
TMCNo1 TMCNo1 is offline
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[quote=viabill]
. The prop looks like it is original, and is a 4-blade stainless version. QUOTE]


Just caught this statement, and a 4 Blade S/S prop should not have been original on a '89 Barefoot 190 454HO!
Do you have a owners manual and what does it say in it as far as the prop it came with. My '89 PS190 manual tells me what prop my boat came with and in my manual it also has the specs. for your boat too, 454CI, 340hp and 425hp both had a 14X14 cupped 3 Blade.
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Last edited by TMCNo1; 08-03-2006 at 12:22 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2006, 12:13 PM
TMCNo1 TMCNo1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viabill
More good input, xvs. I'm going to check out the RPM situation this weekend. What kind of Elect distributor did you get? The guys at Indmar told me thay have a kit that includes a GM dist., wires, etc. that is a drop-in for ~$375.
No valve seal smoke, yet, but I do get black smoke from a rich condition when starting the engine after the engine is thoroughly warmed up and we're doing lots of stop & start with changing skiers, etc. My only thought is to change both needle & seats in the Holley. Have you had any carb issues?
Did you have any trouble finding a replacement block? I understand these are 4-bolt main blocks and finding a MarkIV (old) performance block could be difficult and would be pricey.

All you need is a Electronic Ignition Converson Kit from Skidim for around$100, fairly simple, follow instructions and you may need a coil too.
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2006, 12:45 PM
xsvfooter xsvfooter is offline
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Boat: 1990 Tri-Star 190 open bow w/454
Location: Batavia, IL
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TMCNo1, those were my thoughts initially. I was so unhappy with the prop I had on it I called MC to find out what the oem prop should be so I could put one on. I was stunned when they told me the 4 blade stainless was it. No body could tell me who made the prop or much about it (diameter or pitch). I had a local prop shop, Airmarine out of Chicago, tell me they thought it was done my Michigan Wheel. They also told me to guard the brass insert with my life since it can't be ordered anyplace.

Regarding the distributor, its a GM from discount inboard marine. Their part number back in 4/98 was prs44-879 and cost was 173.50.

Regarding the carb, while the engine was being rebuilt I used a holley refresh kit and rebuilt the card. It's actually an easy carb to work on. Just follow the directions in the kit. The powervalve in the kit was not the same size that was in the carb, but I used it anyway. I didn't have any hesitation issues after the rebuild, so I just continued to use the new PV even though it was different than the original. I used a vacuum gauge to tune the carb and the motor runs flawless. The electric choke is broke, but the engine warms up so fast it's not a big deal.

Most prebuilt marine BB rebuilds offered from engine rebuilders are low HP (300 ish) and a two bolt main. None of them had a short block I could drop in, so I opted to have a local shop do the work. The guy who owns the shop races boats, so he has lots of experience with marine motors. Regarding getting the 4bolt Gen IV big block, yes they are difficult to find. Not impossible, but just not real common. You'll also find that the hot rodders love the heads from that engine. I seriously thought about going to a new generation BB and heads. I don't remember the exact amount, but selling the heads would have offset a lot of the expense. As it turned out, I spent $2470 getting it rebuilt. List of services: rebore .030 over, align bore, rods reconditioned, cylinders hones, polished crank, block resurface, magnaflux block, valve job, heads refaced, magnaflux heads, cut for seals (I may have missed a few). List of parts: block, pistons (speed pro forged), rings, bearings (main, rod & cam), wrist pins, gaskets, lifters, oil pump, valve st seals, freeze plug, spring shims.

Moral of the story - remove the petcocks and put plug in so your not tempted to just open them. When you remove the plugs, poke the holes in case there is sand in there.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2006, 01:09 PM
TMCNo1 TMCNo1 is offline
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Most props have the Manufacturer, size [dia./pitch], rotation, cup or not and date of mfg. stamped on the hub, between the blades. My original '89 is a Federal Propellor.
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2006, 01:25 PM
TMCNo1 TMCNo1 is offline
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Somewhat of a double post, but,..............
On our '89, the original is a Federal, SuperCup, Equi-Poise, 13LH13, Ni-Bral, 5-88, stamped on the hub between the blades and a "S" stamped on the hub face behind the prop nut. FWIW, Look for the info. on it.
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Last edited by TMCNo1; 08-03-2006 at 01:28 PM.
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