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  #11  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:47 PM
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Mastercraftdave Mastercraftdave is offline
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My Father just sold his 50ft Sea Ray that we had in our family for 17 years. Sea Ray has changed there boats throughout the years. Some things good and some bad. The Yacht market is shrinking and Sea Ray just invested a lot of money in their lineup.

He just went the with a 40ft. center console.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:48 PM
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Sales are spiralling - and other than the blip we just had during the past 5 years, I agree totally that this is likely the peak. But, these Brands are partially to blame here. Actually, fully to blame. Brands need a new way to engage their customers, or the customers will jump ship (pun intended) to another Brand in a heartbeat. I like Boating, but I don't care about a Brand that doesn't care about me - and I can get something that floats anywhere. This is what people think. I bought MC because the Brand meant something. Do I feel the love back? How? If Brunswick or MC do not want price to be an issue (SeaRays were more expensive than many of the same model class), then they should have a better methodology to engage and keep their customers. That's my point. Brunswick never really did what a laser focused boat builder should focus on because Brunswick is a unit seller. Once a Brand starts calling me a unit sale, they're on the way downhill.
You don't keep a customer engaged by having a prettier website next year or spamming me with your garbage or thinking I'll see your Facebook or Instagram posts.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:04 PM
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swc5150 swc5150 is offline
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They're all unit sellers. MC just fills a niche, arguably, better than than the rest. That's how they gain/retain customers. We bought a Prostar this year for its build quality, features and smallest wake out there. Sea Ray is competing in a much larger market space, with other big players. Not a whole lot of differentiation in the I/O runabout world, except for build quality (think Cobalt vs Bayliner). But they all pretty much do the same thing. It doesn't entirely shock me that a large runabout company is on the chopping block. Looking at the towed watersports market (CC anyway), try to get a spray date for a new G right now. If you're lucky, you'll see your new boat by next summer.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastercraftdave View Post
My Father just sold his 50ft Sea Ray that we had in our family for 17 years. Sea Ray has changed there boats throughout the years. Some things good and some bad. The Yacht market is shrinking and Sea Ray just invested a lot of money in their lineup.

He just went the with a 40ft. center console.
Dang. That was one of the best looking boats Iíve seen. Pics of the new one!!!
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:01 PM
bobx1 bobx1 is offline
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Interesting article Larry and thanks for sharing.....

One of the major factors in the 2008 collapse was due to lack of available credit. Dealers had floor plan financing taken away and consumers lost Home Equity lines of credit due to the housing collapse.

While MCís stated target market is a guy with a multi-million dollar net worth making multi-six figures per year, I assume lots of their boat sales are still on credit. I have no clue how many consumers are writing a check for their toy vs how many are going 5-7+ years out with their financing. Regardless, if banks are still willing to lend the money (to dealers and consumers) then the luxury toy/boat market may be fine.

Since interest rates have been kept artificially low (Quantitative Easing), then I wonder how rising interest rates will affect boat sales? I don't think a few percentage point increases over the next 18 months will have much effect....but I could be wrong.

As for Sea Ray, it would be interesting to see their numbers broken out by sub- $200k boats, $200K-$500K boats, and greater than $500K. If their sub $200K boats are tanking then it may be a sign of things to come. On the other hand, the sub $200K Sea Ray line up is pretty one dimensional. If I am going to spend $200K on a boat, it better surf well, wakeboard well, and pleasure cruise well.

This much I know (based on the pics of guys on here ordering new boats), MC seems to be improving their products and raising prices and people keep buying them. As prices continue to rise, and assuming people keep buying them, then the used market will remain strong. If the used market remains strong then depreciation will continue to be low. If depreciation remains low then that fuels more new sales because people will finance the boat and resell it at a minimal loss.

Would love to hear other peoples take on this.

LARRY - You smelled something a while back and curious what you think is (or will be) happening.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:08 PM
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Mastercraftdave Mastercraftdave is offline
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Originally Posted by MC25 View Post
Dang. That was one of the best looking boats Iíve seen. Pics of the new one!!!
Don't have it yet. Scheduled to be built in March. Pursuit S368 with Triple 350 Yamaha.

The Center console and outboard motors revolution is a real thing. Every brand of boat is making one capable of running outboards. They are very efficient and require so much less room. That's where a lot of manufacturers are moving.

On a side note, we tested a 390 Nortech center console and with triple Mercury 400Rs on the back, the boat ran 85 mph in smooth water. In 3-4ft chop out in a local lake, we were running 65mph and it cut throw the waves like a sharp knife.
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:22 PM
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Mastercraftdave Mastercraftdave is offline
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Originally Posted by bobx1 View Post
Interesting article Larry and thanks for sharing.....

One of the major factors in the 2008 collapse was due to lack of available credit. Dealers had floor plan financing taken away and consumers lost Home Equity lines of credit due to the housing collapse.

While MCís stated target market is a guy with a multi-million dollar net worth making multi-six figures per year, I assume lots of their boat sales are still on credit. I have no clue how many consumers are writing a check for their toy vs how many are going 5-7+ years out with their financing. Regardless, if banks are still willing to lend the money (to dealers and consumers) then the luxury toy/boat market may be fine.

Since interest rates have been kept artificially low (Quantitative Easing), then I wonder how rising interest rates will affect boat sales? I don't think a few percentage point increases over the next 18 months will have much effect....but I could be wrong.

As for Sea Ray, it would be interesting to see their numbers broken out by sub- $200k boats, $200K-$500K boats, and greater than $500K. If their sub $200K boats are tanking then it may be a sign of things to come. On the other hand, the sub $200K Sea Ray line up is pretty one dimensional. If I am going to spend $200K on a boat, it better surf well, wakeboard well, and pleasure cruise well.

This much I know (based on the pics of guys on here ordering new boats), MC seems to be improving their products and raising prices and people keep buying them. As prices continue to rise, and assuming people keep buying them, then the used market will remain strong. If the used market remains strong then depreciation will continue to be low. If depreciation remains low then that fuels more new sales because people will finance the boat and resell it at a minimal loss.

Would love to hear other peoples take on this.

LARRY - You smelled something a while back and curious what you think is (or will be) happening.
The biggest problem with SeaRay that I have seen is that they are trying to now compete with the high end yacht brands and SeaRay just isn't that. They used to be a very good boat that the average person could afford, especially for the Sundancers and Sedan Bridge boats that were 38-60 ft. They tried to get away from that and focus on a different crowd but the problem is the people that they were trying to attract don't see a SeaRay in that top tier boat market, similar to how we view the second tier inboard market. There new luxury series is a nice boat but for the money, you can go to a manufacturer with a better history of high end boats and get a nicer boat.

SeaRay got away from its base and they are suffering for it. My father owned his 50 Sedan Bridge for 17 years and it was a flawless boat. It only took him 2 weeks to sell the boat and for larger boats, that's incredible. My folks looked at the new lineups and they just got crazy on pricing for the same size boat and to him, it just wasn't worth it. The large boat market is suffering some, especially the non offshore fishing market. It will be interesting to see the future of SeaRay.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:57 PM
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Stritt Stritt is offline
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Since no one is going to throw it out there and its winter silly season.....and speculation abound

Where did MC CEO come from ��

Which factory is located across the cove ��

MC tried to break into cruiser market with the 300 great looking boat at Miami boat show I might add.

Finally Malibu acquired Cobalt a few months ago....both MC and Malibu ar public companies and can raise cash....

Of course this is all speculation but worthy of acknowledging.

For those that dont know how the unit numbers breakdown here is a glimpse that can be extrapulated as all states dont report

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/marin...s-in-september

MC CEO resume

https://www.bloomberg.com/research/s...apId=214080574

This is 100% winter time boredom and speculation as we are waiting for the ever illusive 50th Anniversary boats ��
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2017, 02:26 AM
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lashburn1 lashburn1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastercraftdave View Post
Don't have it yet. Scheduled to be built in March. Pursuit S368 with Triple 350 Yamaha.

The Center console and outboard motors revolution is a real thing. Every brand of boat is making one capable of running outboards. They are very efficient and require so much less room. That's where a lot of manufacturers are moving.

On a side note, we tested a 390 Nortech center console and with triple Mercury 400Rs on the back, the boat ran 85 mph in smooth water. In 3-4ft chop out in a local lake, we were running 65mph and it cut throw the waves like a sharp knife.
these Super Size CCs are the $hit!!! SO awesome. Congrats!!
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:07 AM
Dd24skater Dd24skater is offline
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Searays customers are not returning for their next new boat, could be age, could be design, could be a move to something entirely different. SR has seen this problem coming for a long time and haven't found the correct solution for it. This information from an insider at SR.

Look's like Brunswick knows how to fix it now.
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