Go Back   TeamTalk > Maintenance Tips, How-tos and Refurbishing Topics > Engine / Drive Train

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2014, 03:30 AM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 151
transmission overheat switch trip point for in-line Velvet Drive

Iíve got an in-line Velvet Drive transmission (Model 10-17-004, 1:1 ratio) in my 1994 ProStar 190 with an Indmar Chevy 350 TBI. Iím getting conflicting information about the appropriate temperature trip point for a replacement transmission overheat switch.

The switch I pulled from the transmission, which looks old enough to be the original, though I canít say for sure it is the original because Iíve owned the boat less than a year, is stamped 195F.

All the documentation published by Velvet Drive I can find on the internet, much of it being around twenty years old, states the normal operating temperature for the transmission fluid (in sump) is 140-190 degrees F and that it should be replaced if it goes over 190 degrees F.

Ebasicpower says the transmission, being inline, normally takes a 190 degree switch. They state the v-drive takes the 235 degree switch. However, they state the v-drive and in-line have the same hydraulics, so the 235 will provide adequate protection. They have no explanation as to why Velvet Drive advised fluid replacement if 190 degrees F was exceeded in my in-line transmission.

Vince at DIM says they have only sold 235 degree F switches for these transmissions. He states a 190 degree switch could lead to false positives.

Iíve seen boat owners elsewhere on the internet claiming you would have to run wide open for an extended period for a normally operating in-line Velvet Drive transmission to reach 190.

Any thoughts on sorting this out?
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:13 AM
CantRepeat's Avatar
CantRepeat CantRepeat is online now
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Boat: 06 X30
Location: Roll Tide!!
Posts: 8,119
Well I would bet the 190 is correct.

I couldn't see where that trans would run much over 150 in temp.

http://www.ebasicpower.com/pc/ALT99329/ALL3G

I believe you have found the correct part.

edit

Here's a place that sells the 195 and it's cheaper.

http://www.partman.com/drive-systems...nsmission.html
__________________
Tim
Gone, surfing.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:58 AM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 10,463
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
Are you just changing this part due to its age?

here's a 190 - I wonder if it will fit the Velvet - it's Indmar and Hurth but a bit cheaper.
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-25-2014, 04:09 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
Are you just changing this part due to its age?

here's a 190 - I wonder if it will fit the Velvet - it's Indmar and Hurth but a bit cheaper.
Mikeg205, thanks for making sure Iím not replacing things willy nilly, but Iím not replacing the transmission temperature switch based on age. Heck, if I were going to do that, I should just expedite the process by selling the boat and buying a new one rather than doing it a part at a time.

I got into checking sensors because, when I bought the boat last year, the fuel gauge always read empty. After researching on this forum and on gauge manufacturer websites, I determined the gauge and wiring were okay and the sensor in the fuel tank was putting out incorrect resistance. I chose not to take the rebuild route. I have a new WEMA fuel sensor Iím going to install (and, yes, Iíve tested that too and the resistance is correct at various ďfuelĒ levels). Age probably did play a role in my decision to spend time checking other sensors on the boat, but Iím not replacing sensors or switches on the basis of age.

The 195F transmission temperature switch I removed from the boat behaves inconsistently when I check it in heated water. Originally, it closed around 200 or so, but then it didnít re-open while sitting at room temperature for 4-5 hours. I decided at that point to replace it. It must have opened at some point after that, because when I re-tested it days later, it wouldnít close when exposed to boiling water for several minutes.


Am I overlooking something or did you omit a link? I'm relatively new to the forum, but I don't see the part to which you are referring.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-25-2014, 04:19 PM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 10,463
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
I am slowly replacing parts as well to refresh the boat - I replaced all the coolant temp sensors on my boat as well. 18 years is a long time - cheap stuff to enable my MCOCD. I pull them on the motor to check corrosion and then replace them as long as I have them out.

If you already have it out.. why not replace it if the $22 will fix it. Those switches should open and close consistently.

I missed the link - dang it.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1412
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-25-2014, 06:16 PM
CantRepeat's Avatar
CantRepeat CantRepeat is online now
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Boat: 06 X30
Location: Roll Tide!!
Posts: 8,119
I'll assume you have check the trans cooler for trash.
__________________
Tim
Gone, surfing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:28 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantRepeat View Post
Well I would bet the 190 is correct.

I couldn't see where that trans would run much over 150 in temp.

http://www.ebasicpower.com/pc/ALT99329/ALL3G

I believe you have found the correct part.

edit

Here's a place that sells the 195 and it's cheaper.

http://www.partman.com/drive-systems...nsmission.html
Yeah, I too suspect they often run well below 190, which is the stated MAXIMUM operating temperature according to the manufacturer's documentation. The guy at ebasicpower said heís rebuilt many of these transmissions and is intimately familiar with them. He seemed quite sure a 190 degree switch is normally specified for the in-line Velvet Drive. If they often reach 190 with 190 switches, then why isnít this forum overrun with complaints about transmission overheat warning lights coming on needlessly? The apparent lack of a large number of such complaints suggests to me the transmissions donít often reach 190, but I can't say I've directly measured the fluid temperature in mine.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:49 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
I am slowly replacing parts as well to refresh the boat - I replaced all the coolant temp sensors on my boat as well. 18 years is a long time - cheap stuff to enable my MCOCD. I pull them on the motor to check corrosion and then replace them as long as I have them out.

If you already have it out.. why not replace it if the $22 will fix it. Those switches should open and close consistently.

I missed the link - dang it.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1412
Thanks for the link. I hadn't noticed that one. That price is much lower than the roughly $60-$80 I’ve seen for the Alto version to which CantRepeat linked and the $130-$150 I’ve seen for an actual Velvet Drive part. Interestingly, the ebasicpowere guy says he suspects Alto and Velvet Drive have the same source for it.

The one to which you link certainly looks like it in terms of style and dimension. DIM states in their description for the 235 switch (Item No. 62812) they sell for these transmissions that it “fits” both Velvet Drive and Hurth, so maybe the one you found described for Hurth elsewhere will cross to my Velvet Drive. Worth my time looking into.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1

Last edited by lake weir skier; 02-26-2014 at 03:11 AM. Reason: Clarity
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:59 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantRepeat View Post
I'll assume you have check the trans cooler for trash.
To be clear, the only time I’ve seen my transmission overheat light on is when I grounded a lead to the transmission temperature switch to test the warning light and wiring. I don’t have reason to suspect the transmission is overheating. I just want to make sure I will receive a warning if it does.

I did take the intake side raw water hose off the transmission cooler in January when we had unusually cold weather forecast here in Florida that led me to drain water from the engine cooling system and run in Marine/RV anti-freeze. There were only a couple of yard grass leaf size pieces of vegetation in the intake side. I attached a wet/dry vac to suck out anything loose. If there is anything else to do on that, I would like to know.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1

Last edited by lake weir skier; 02-26-2014 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Clarity
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2014, 05:22 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 151
The Velvet Drive website lists distributors for service, parts, and technical support. The closest to me is Transmission Marine in Ft. Lauderdale. I called and spoke to their technician. He advised I should stick with a 195 degree F switch such as I pulled off my boat. He advised against using a 235 degree F switch because he believes it could allow parts in the transmission to be compromised before the warning light came on. He says, depending on the load such as pulling skiers, my in-line Velvet Drive should normally run about 150-175 degrees F. Therefore, he didn’t think using a 190 switch (just 5 degrees below 195), such as the $60-$80 Alto, would be a problem.

He only had the genuine Velvet Drive 195 degree F switch at around $150. He said a switch for a Hurth could work if it had the right temperature trip point and dimensions.

I’m going to look into the one mikeg205 found for $22 for a Hurth transmission, but the Bakes parts guy is out of the office today.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1

Last edited by lake weir skier; 02-26-2014 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Formatting
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:40 PM.