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Old 09-03-2013, 11:12 PM
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Blown JL M10w5 subwoofer

I let the stereo control get away from me the other night, somebody ( who shall remain nameless) cranked the sub level from my setting of 3 to an 8. well it didnt take long to stretch the voice coil and now its done.
The question is: Replacement Subwoofer? I want to use the JL cause I run two of them in parallel for a 2 ohm load. I took out the original M10WIB5 - which is the infinite baffle sister to the M10W5B (meant for enclosed use).

-Do you think that the IB will be able to work in the enclosure? In parallel with the enclosed type sub.

-Is it possible that the IB could be more resistant to overloading due to its construction to survive in an open air environment? (an enclosure may provide more dampening to excursion due to the air cushion inside the enclosure)
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:08 AM
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craig,
You definitely can put the sub you mentioned in the enclosure just for the weekend but it is not a permanent solution.
The 10" IB sub is infinite baffle and would like to see an enclosure from 2.25 cu.ft. to infinite.
The 10" W sub is acoustic suspension and works best in a small sealed enclosure of .75 to 1.0 cu.ft.
There are differences in the spider, voice coil and motor/magnet that make each version unique to a specific size of enclosure. Mixing two speakers of different sizes, different strengths or different parameters in the same enclosure will not sound good, especially at higher listening levels. You may not notice it as much on electronic techno music but you will certainly hear a difference on bass created by a real string instrument.

David
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:33 PM
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the two subs are in parallel but in separate sealed enclosures.
Do you think that the IB might be more resistant to over excursion/damage? I have blown this sub before and it would be advantageous to a more robust unit.

Thanks for the reply on MC as well!
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig3972 View Post
the two subs are in parallel but in separate sealed enclosures.
Do you think that the IB might be more resistant to over excursion/damage? I have blown this sub before and it would be advantageous to a more robust unit.

Thanks for the reply on MC as well!
craig,
That's not the thinking you want to follow. An IB sub has greater internal damping, which you might think sums with the air spring of a small sealed enclosure for more collective control. But, that would elevate the resonance and low frequency roll-off point turning it into the world's best midbass driver....but with no more deep bass. Also, IB is a less linear form of suspension so an IB woofer trades MORE control for LESS excursion....ie less maximum output. A design element that you cannot escape. So, get back to creating a woofer and enclosure that is matched and balanced.
On another note. You can double the same woofer's power handling by doubling the voice coil, doubling the inductance, and doubling the sluggishness. In other words, muddy and indiscriminant sound quality. Eventually you sacrifice responsiveness or sound quality with a narrow focus on one objective. It's another one of those design trade-offs with compromises that you cannot escape. Look, woofer voice coils are made from a copper winding insulated by an enamel coating. Copper and enamel pretty much burn and melt at the same temperature from speaker to speaker and brand to brand. So figure out why you blew the sub and correct that issue. It could be equalization, crossover selection, system tuning, a non-airtight enclosure like with no terminal cup, questionable program material, usage, hard clipping, etc. etc.

David
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:05 PM
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I wish JL made a Marine 12" sub - I like to keep all my grills looking OEM.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig3972 View Post
I wish JL made a Marine 12" sub - I like to keep all my grills looking OEM.
Some older model MC's had JL speaker covers as OEM so if you did an all JL conversion then it wouldn't be out of place imho.

I can attest to the IB being very strong. I'm only putting 250 out of a 700/5 to one of them. I have two of the subs but only one installed right now. I might upgrade to the 900/5 amp before I put in a second sub.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:56 AM
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I was was running my pair of M10w5 on an MHD750, might be a bit much.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:48 AM
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Looks like you received a direct answer to your question from David - No

To solve your problem -
1 - own your system and establish a strict "NO TOUCH" policy. Especially at higher volumes.
2- Consider installing larger than 10". 10" is cheap and easy to make an install work but on most installs, only produces reinforcing sound. 12"+ will deliver the bass that is missing.

Don't know where you have them installed now but as David said - a mixed pair of IB and Sealed is not delivering a combined sound and is probably sonically fighting at some frequencies. Don't get too hung up on having a pure mfg system.
What sounds good and meets your listening needs is more important than a grill shape!
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig3972 View Post
I was was running my pair of M10w5 on an MHD750, might be a bit much.
Craig,
At 375 rms watts (very conservatively), especially from a more robust strictly regulated amplifier, that is a lot of power for those sub drivers individually, even as conservatively as JL Audio rates their woofer thermal power. We typically top out at around 300 watts honest power with an unregulated amplifier per each driver in that series. But honestly, I could run double that power and never have an issue because personally I can't tolerate the first hint of distortion. But bass distortion is different and harder to detect versus mids and highs. Distortion in mids and highs tends to immediately grate on you. Bass distortion simply loses tonal construction and becomes muddy which may be harder to hear depending on the type of music you listen to. Plus, bass distortion is even more difficult to hear when underway.
Again, proper tuning (gains and crossover selection) can make a huge difference in reliability, not to mention sound quality. You can't set up a 10" like you do a 12", and you can't set up a boat anything like you do a car, SUV or truck.

David
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
Craig,
At 375 rms watts (very conservatively), especially from a more robust strictly regulated amplifier, that is a lot of power for those sub drivers individually, even as conservatively as JL Audio rates their woofer thermal power. We typically top out at around 300 watts honest power with an unregulated amplifier per each driver in that series. But honestly, I could run double that power and never have an issue because personally I can't tolerate the first hint of distortion. But bass distortion is different and harder to detect versus mids and highs. Distortion in mids and highs tends to immediately grate on you. Bass distortion simply loses tonal construction and becomes muddy which may be harder to hear depending on the type of music you listen to. Plus, bass distortion is even more difficult to hear when underway.
Again, proper tuning (gains and crossover selection) can make a huge difference in reliability, not to mention sound quality. You can't set up a 10" like you do a 12", and you can't set up a boat anything like you do a car, SUV or truck.

David
Thank you David.


I always really liked the M10w5's, fast responding, deep sounding for a 10" with the HD750, and I was having good luck until this last incident. Besides a 12" wouldn't fit in the MC OEM location.
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