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  #11  
Old 09-09-2013, 10:18 AM
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Traxx822 Traxx822 is offline
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Jim are you talking about the dial that spins? And which one? The one for the sub or 7.7?

I know I have the 7.7's at 80 and the sub at 60

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  #12  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx822 View Post
Jim are you talking about the dial that spins? And which one? The one for the sub or 7.7?

I know I have the 7.7's at 80 and the sub at 60

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Yes- that control. If you make an enclosure for the mid-bass, you'll be able to raise the sub't crossover frequency a bit to cover for the higher HP crossover frequency. Also, since the smaller drivers aren't required to handle the lower frequencies, they won't have a problem when the volume control is turned up. It will definitely help the mid-bass sound quality because the driver won't be affected by the sub. I would probably raise the sub crossover to about 80 Hz and the mid-bass to 120 Hz- you may not even notice the gap because this is the range where your engine makes most of its sounds and trying to overcome the noise floor in this region requires more power than most systems can provide while maintaining the full dynamic range (max output minus noise level).
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:14 PM
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Well, with a 60 hz lowpass crossover, you can be pretty sure that this contributed to the early subwoofer failure. It's an open field boat....not an enclosed car cabin. The meat of the bass is from 50 to 80 Hz. The roll-off begins 1/3rd octave below the crossover frequency. So at 60 Hz LP you are beginning to roll off the sub BEFORE/BELOW you get to the meat of the bass. To get ample output you are making the sub work inordinately hard with excessive excursion. Keep in mind that to reproduce one octave lower at the same amplitude, it take four times the power and four times the excursion. You are pushing the train up a hill. Again, it's a boat, not a car, so you do not want to gap the high and low pass crossovers unless you are running the subs really hot and that is a mistake with 10s. Gapping the crossovers simply reduces output in an area that is crucial to the perceived output. Use a symmetrical frequency. Raise the frequency up which generates more output and forces you to gain down the sub which compliments the reliability. The highpass on the 7.7s determine the sub lowpass....not the other way around.

David
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Yes- that control. If you make an enclosure for the mid-bass, you'll be able to raise the sub't crossover frequency a bit to cover for the higher HP crossover frequency. Also, since the smaller drivers aren't required to handle the lower frequencies, they won't have a problem when the volume control is turned up. It will definitely help the mid-bass sound quality because the driver won't be affected by the sub. I would probably raise the sub crossover to about 80 Hz and the mid-bass to 120 Hz- you may not even notice the gap because this is the range where your engine makes most of its sounds and trying to overcome the noise floor in this region requires more power than most systems can provide while maintaining the full dynamic range (max output minus noise level).
Very interesting. Thanks for helping me put this together. Its been a battle since install.

Couple questions about the slope setting and the crossover setting:

I have the slope on 12 instead of 24 or 12 because it seems to control the cone better. One side or the other seems either too tight and not enough base and the other is violent and distorted unless input is turned way down. The way the cone moves nice and smooth at 12 makes me happy so I left it there. Why?

Also I can switch between 4 channel and 6 channel but on 6 channel the sub picks up a lot of higher pitch noise that shouldn't be coming from a sub. Unless I turn the crossover way down and I can't hear them anymore. This also sounds decent when turned up like the above set up but since it just doesn't seem right to me to be running the amp like that I didn't leve it this way. Good decision?

Also, for the enclosure, since it's pretty tight, one side might have to be considerable bigger than the other due to the vaulted top side of the enclosure. Is the shape going to affect the sound if one side is significantly larger?

I have 4 M6.5IB on the tower. They are run by a M4/400 I have the input turned up about 80% and the crossover at 100 & each speaker is @2 ohm - 4 channel. They are loud, and I can hear them at 70 feet easy and don't seem distorted. At surf speeds I don't turn it up all the way as it is pretty loud. And my WS420 has the mic and it echo's when I talk through it. So I am pretty happy with it. But is there anything you can think of that might be able to make this better. Here is what I have noticed, I can hear at 70' all vocals, highs and some mid bass even. Hard rock sounds awesome, new age music with lots of bass sounds decent but not great.

I have been dabbling with the idea of upgrading my tower speakers. I really want the white 7.7" sport grills with the tweeter pods in either JL or MC pods. If I was to upgrade, could I use the same amp? the M4/400. And what speakers or suggestions can you make to get nice mid bass and deeper bass out of it.
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
Well, with a 60 hz lowpass crossover, you can be pretty sure that this contributed to the early subwoofer failure. It's an open field boat....not an enclosed car cabin. The meat of the bass is from 50 to 80 Hz. The roll-off begins 1/3rd octave below the crossover frequency. So at 60 Hz LP you are beginning to roll off the sub BEFORE/BELOW you get to the meat of the bass. To get ample output you are making the sub work inordinately hard with excessive excursion. Keep in mind that to reproduce one octave lower at the same amplitude, it take four times the power and four times the excursion. You are pushing the train up a hill. Again, it's a boat, not a car, so you do not want to gap the high and low pass crossovers unless you are running the subs really hot and that is a mistake with 10s. Gapping the crossovers simply reduces output in an area that is crucial to the perceived output. Use a symmetrical frequency. Raise the frequency up which generates more output and forces you to gain down the sub which compliments the reliability. The highpass on the 7.7s determine the sub lowpass....not the other way around.

David
OMG I had to read this 4 times.

So leave it at 12 and turn it up to 75-80?

The highlighted sentence made a few light bulbs come on. Thanks
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2013, 03:07 PM
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Odin, who administrates the Earmark on-line store, walks his customers through a step-by-step tuning prescription based on a seven-page pro tuning draft written by Earmark specifically for open-air boats. And then there is another advanced version if you have the tolerance for that technical level. But he can keep it as simple as you want. He will make the identical system components sound much better and improve the system reliability and efficiency in the process.
Odin has been with Earmark since 1992 and has worked in installation, sales, purchasing and management. A musician since 1984, Odin combines his love for music with a technical understanding of audio extending well beyond mobile and marine electronics. Odin has performed with local band Southbound since 1999, worked as the in-house sound engineer for hundreds of local and national touring artists at local music venue Hank’s Texas Grill since 2004 and collects and restores vintage amplifiers. I would consider Odin, with his considerable prosound, automotive, and marine audio background, to be one of the leading experts on system tuning and gain structure.

While I still help out on the forums, I am retired from Earmark.

David
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