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  #11  
Old 08-11-2013, 09:52 AM
skitilldark skitilldark is offline
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Update from the dealer; they have checked every single electrical connection in the boat(looking for a possible ground that could be causing it), the ECM inside and out, all related sensors, the coil and all associated wiring, the temperature equation(water pump, impeller, etc.). They have basically told me that everything in the boat checks out. They are suggesting now that I replace the computer. I'm fine to do that, but they also say it might not BE the computer and they can't refund the price of it should that not be the cause. So I am stuck. As of now I have a 4000 pound stereo system and that is about it. Where do I turn now? Does anyone know of a 209/X9 that has been totalled or junked that I could buy the computer out of for a lot cheaper than a new one?
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2013, 10:04 AM
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1redTA 1redTA is offline
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The parts I was talking about don't really get checked, they get replaced because of a short inside the part at temperature. I'd start with the cheapest parts first when blind troubleshooting.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:09 AM
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Mark rsa2au Mark rsa2au is offline
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Mate, a long shot here! Check your battery connections and earth cables.

My motor was doing some strange things. Go into limp home mode and the gauges would stop working. Almost always when I was skiing so I asked why, I am the heaviest, ski the hardest and need all 310hp to drag me out so the motor was always warm and worked hardest when I skied.

A full check of the electrics and I found the battery connections loose. Replaced these along with new cables for earth and positive and that specific issue is now resolved.
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  #14  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyt View Post
its uh... limp mode... not guardian mode..

check your fuel pressure
Delphi NEVER called it "limp mode"- it's called "RPM Reduction".
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:37 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djr47 View Post
What do you mean by gaurdian mode? I'm having a simliar issue with my 2005 X-star with an MCX. Take it to the dealer and they said they cannot read the codes because they are soft codes and are deleted off the computer after 3 warm up and cool down cycles.

Dealer fixed what they thought was the issue and the next weekend we take the boat out and it throws check engine on the first set back! The boat looses power and sits in neutral flashing check engine with the engine running but no control with the throttle (is this what you mean by gaurdian mode?) We turn the boat off then on and it works fine.

I think my issue has something to do with my perfect pass as I only experience the check engine with perfect pass on. Looking at buying my own code reader to scan the code as soon as it happens out on the water to solve the problem once and for all.
IIRC, it was three key on, throttle max/min three times, key off cycles that cleared codes.

If the dealer wasn't using a diagnostic computer, they need to get in the game. This allows them to not only read the data in real time, it also lets them take a snapshot of what's happening at any moment in time and this needs to be done several times, to see if something changes when the throttle is static.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Originally Posted by skitilldark View Post
Okay guys, I need the smartest MC guys on these boards to weigh in on this if possible. It is getting worse but 5 weeks later and still no one can solve it. I say worse because when it first started happening, I could kill the switch, turn it back on and it might be two days before it did it again. Now, it does it within 10 minutes every time. Since I am rapidly losing friends who happen to be riding when the boat goes into limp mode, I've got to come up with a solution. I tried some earlier advice of checking for corrosion between the coil and the ECM, but nothing there. As you can see on the video link, I checked fuel pressure during the event and the psi is normal. The engine surges between 1500 and 2200 rpm during the event. It NEVER clears itself up. Only killing the ignition will make it go away. Throttle position is irrelevant. The cruise control is off. A new occurance is that when I kill the ignition and fire it back up, at least one guage goes dead. Sometimes it is the speedo, sometimes it it temp guage, sometimes it is the oil pressure guage. But mostly it is the speedo or the temp guage. Never the fuel guage or the tach. I have no idea what that could mean but thought I should include it. Notice in the video that the CHECK ENGINE light never comes on during the event.

To clarify the first post, (I always get the LTR and MCX confused), my engine is not an MCX, it is the LTR. And you CANNOT get the boat to experience this anomaly when it is cool. It only happens after the boat has been on a fairly hard run(30-37mph)with varying throttle inputs. The dealer had the boat for three weeks and ran two tankfuls of gas through it trying to make it do this and they could not. I got the boat back and did it within 30 minutes. The ONLY difference between me and the dealer's driving the boat is I always have a skier or tuber, etc and have several people in the boat. They did not. Other than that I can't think of anything I do different that could be triggering the event. PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN!!!

Here are a couple of videos of the "anomaly";

http://youtu.be/-_ZET4BRR3E

http://youtu.be/4Sp2PPcMjy4
Do you ever look at the volt meter? If it's reading correctly, it's waaaaaaayyyy low and low voltage will definitely make it run badly. Using a diagnostic computer allows seeing the voltage sent to the ECM, which can be compared with the dash gauge- if the ECM sees a different voltage, it indicates that the engine's wiring needs to be checked.

What was added to the boat after it was manufactured? Look at the installation of ALL accessories and make sure nothing could be causing this. Disconnect all of them to make sure it runs consistently before re-connecting them, one by one.

There's no reason a dealer should release a boat without fixing any problem.

If you want to check the ECM, send it to Indmar.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:47 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark rsa2au View Post
Mate, a long shot here! Check your battery connections and earth cables.
That's not a long shot, it's one of the first things that should be checked.
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:13 AM
skitilldark skitilldark is offline
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Thanks to everyone for the advice.

I am going to go into seclusion if it ends up a loose battery connection, however.

I am pretty positive it is electrical since we had problems all last summer with the alternator. That issue was resolved when the alternator shop discovered a loose wire inside the alternator that would lose contact when hot and kill the alternator. But we replaced just about everything related to the alternator(wires, etc) AND the main boat battery, so I haven't been paying attention there.

Thanks again! I'll let you know what happens.
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  #19  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:20 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skitilldark View Post
Thanks to everyone for the advice.

I am going to go into seclusion if it ends up a loose battery connection, however.

I am pretty positive it is electrical since we had problems all last summer with the alternator. That issue was resolved when the alternator shop discovered a loose wire inside the alternator that would lose contact when hot and kill the alternator. But we replaced just about everything related to the alternator(wires, etc) AND the main boat battery, so I haven't been paying attention there.

Thanks again! I'll let you know what happens.
And a battery connection isn't electrical?

Make sure the charging lead isn't too short and pulled tight or the nut holding it on isn't loose.
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  #20  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:24 PM
skitilldark skitilldark is offline
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VERDICT...KINDA

I had two mechanics ride with me in the boat for 4 hours with diagnostics hooked up to everything possible. The boat never went into limp mode for them(of course)... But we found some really puzzling things; we could see the voltage getting to each plug in the boat and after a few minutes of normal ranges, the coil that controlled cylinders 1 and 4 began sending crazy electronics to those two cylinders. They would spike really high and then drop really low. During this time the engine was working normally(no misses, etc, plenty of power). So we stopped and switched the 1 and 4 coil pack with the one above it (3 and 7 I think), but kept the plug order the same. Again around 3400 rpm and higher the coil started sending those crazy highs and lows only is time, cylinders 1 and 4 were the only ones behaving normally. The other 6 were going crazy!?! This is so bizarre because the engine seems to perform normally. VERDICT: faulty ECM or 1 coil pack?

Next up (and JimN will be proven the electronic genius he is) we tested the alternator output under normal operation. The voltage the alternator is sending out should be more consistent like a straight line hovering around 12 volts or so, but mine looked more like a seismograph. It was wildly fluctuating between 14 and 6 volts. VERDICT: Faulty diode?

So of course the next weekend when I didn't have the mechanics in the boat it went into limp mode. This time I noticed something I had not noticed before; during limp mode the small speed indicator on the perfect pass was reading crazy numbers. It would fluctuate between the actual speed (20 mph) and 65 mph with the numbers all over the place. I had eliminated the perfect pass as a culprit in this early in the summer because I never had it turned on when the limp mode would happen. But just for laughs the next time the boat went into limp mode, I unplugged all the power going to the cruise and bam! The boat immediately lit back up. So far, no more issues at all with limp mode.

It was the perfect pass all along. There are still some crazy gremlins though so I am going to replace the alternator, and replace the coils and ECM. Just to make sure.
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