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  #41  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxsRiverRat View Post
MC Ski boats with great wakes:

190
197
205
X7

1. Your speed: I think you need to keep the speed down to where you have it now in order to work on form... Speeding the boat will cause you to form bad habits... You have to be able to generate the speed across the wakes with your body and not let the boat do it for you.

2. Rope: Stay with 15' off - shortening the rope will only slow your learning process. You have to (have to have to) learn to generate the speed and proper on edge form via the longer line and slower speed. You can not learn to ski a slalom course at 28' off - believe me I TRIED

2. Generating the speed with your body means youíre going to have to do the following:
. a. Get wider on the boat....
. b. Keep the ski on edge across BOTH wakes

3. 6-10 people on the boat at all times and on a big boat? Holy cArp... Get rid of the dead weight, go with 3 people max.

4. Lastly, you should be able to tell that you have a good (confident side) and an off (omg iím going to wipe out) side. On the offside pull, make sure you are looking at the pylon the whole way across the wake. That will open your shoulders, put the ski on edge and you wont see the wake coming to be scared of it.

MC
Solid advice ^^^^

IMO, a double boot vs rear toe plate isn't going to make a big difference at this point. I have a front boot w/ rear toe plate on a 67" Radar Theory and really like this set-up. Granted I'm not running a course. But, my 18 y/o daughter just started last year and LOVES my ski. I will post up a picture of her later - she's about your size and also a beginner.

Adjust the number of 'observers' in your boat and go for it. I'd guess many people on here learned to ski behind all kinds of boats/wakes. Huge outboards, center consoles, Bayliners, even...a pontoon I've skiied slalom for almost 40 years and only the last three behind a direct drive 190.
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  #42  
Old 07-16-2013, 09:18 AM
Patrick Patrick is offline
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There's a lot you can work on between now and Sept, before even worrying about crossing the wake (and boat changes). If you keep repeating crossing the big wake and being intimidated you'll potentially do more harm than good by reinforcing a bad position & habits.

- Make sure you're always in the 'right' position on your ski, from the time you get up to the time you're done. Use all the time you're skiing to reinforce standing in the right position even if you're just resting behind the boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1j-7MS6YLc

- When that's comfortable work on pull-out/coasting drills seen below. Keep the strong position. Initiate the outward movement by shifting your outside hip in the desired direction. Try to get in a good lean, come up, coast, and do it again. Take video so you can see what you look like, work on trying to look like they do in the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WsVhsn-RlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLfNGee5LKo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8XqIMwABsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYHKMHBJYdA

I don't know if you have a course available (it's not strictly needed), but another way of working on and learning that position is to hold it the entire length of the course. If you have an adjustable rope shorten it to 22 or 28 off. Pull out and hold the position wider than the buoys. If you're in a good position you'll be able to hold it that wide and get lower and lower into a good lean. If you're not in the right position you'll find yourself getting pulled inside the buoys. Just go back & forth on either side reinforcing a good position. You can do all of that without crossing the wake.

Now just doing pullouts and stuff isn't always 'fun' so ski a bit and have fun, but take some time to try to work on the right position with the wake out of the equation (or just something to do if you find yourself out with a bunch of people). Once that starts feeling good and comfortable you can work on adding the wake.

You can also work on things on land. In retrospect I'm not sure how much it helped while I was learning or not but you can hold your position with the handle attached to anything, or do things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMBIVkQDMU (and part2/part3)

Regarding the bindings, just stick with the toe plate between now and your Coble's trip. Once you're there you can ask to demo anything in the shop (double boots, different skis, etc). That way you can try it and decide if it feels better.

After your trip you'll also get a good idea on what a 197 wake looks & feels like compared to yours.
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  #43  
Old 07-16-2013, 09:27 AM
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LisaJ LisaJ is offline
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More awesome advice Patrick. I'm a very methodical person and I loved your post. Thanks for taking the time to share this information. I'm often too eager and get myself in trouble.
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:03 AM
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For specific slalom help ballofspray.com has a pretty good forum. And Seth Stisher's drills on YouTube are great.
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  #45  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:29 AM
88 PS190 88 PS190 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaJ View Post
More awesome advice Patrick. I'm a very methodical person and I loved your post. Thanks for taking the time to share this information. I'm often too eager and get myself in trouble.
One thing to keep in mind when watching those videos - there is plenty of stuff that can be learned there - but it is from an older school of thought in slalom.

You'll see that there is a lot of "hiding" your back shoulder from the boat, and that he initiates his turns by essentially putting his shoulders over the edge of the ski.

Lots of folks skied or still ski that way, but it really isn't as much fun as carving. I'm even debating buying one of the new "free" ride type skis to work on that sort of stuff.
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  #46  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcityskier View Post
For specific slalom help ballofspray.com has a pretty good forum. And Seth Stisher's drills on YouTube are great.
Oh thanks jeff... give Lisa the seth stisher video's - those are great!!!
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  #47  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:15 AM
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TxsRiverRat TxsRiverRat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaJ View Post
2) Just thinking about 30 mph is giving me the shakes, that is, with my existing GIANT wake! I'm 5'7" and 132 lbs.

6) Now for another question: My new HO ski has a slip in boot behind. The salesman thought it would be better for someone beginning and trying to learn to pull up. I pull up fine but I find after skiing a little bit that the arch of my hind foot gets uncomfortable (probably because I didn't know I shouldn't have SO much weight distributed to my hind foot). My arms, torso, back never make me stop skiing but my hind foot begs me to stop and rest. All the instructional video show people skiing with 2 boots. Should I take my ski back and have this changed? Should a beginner ski with 2 boots?
30 is too fast... Like I said in my initial advice, you must learn to generate the speed and angle with your body through good form, rather than the boat doing it for you. Anyone that might suggest “26 or 28 is too slow, I sink” does not have the proper form. If you have a perfect pass, I would say set yourself up at 28 for free skiing, 26 in a slalom course... I had to slow the boat down to re-learn it all this season, and 30 now feels like I am crawling... at 32 I am running 2 of 3... at 34, I have run it 1x and been at 4 buoys since then. (15 off).

I went to a double boot early and never looked back. Based on your ability and eagerness, I think you may benefit from a double boot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
You can also work on things on land.
^^^+100 – that is a darn good bit of advice – practice your form on dry land!
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  #48  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:22 AM
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Signed up for my next set of lessons on August 21st... going thru the course after a half hour of reviewing my technique... let the addiction begin...
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  #49  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:38 AM
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TxsRiverRat TxsRiverRat is offline
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I might add...

We have a skier in our club that is 6'2" 230# and skis the course at 28.
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  #50  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
There's a lot you can work on between now and Sept, before even worrying about crossing the wake (and boat changes). If you keep repeating crossing the big wake and being intimidated you'll potentially do more harm than good by reinforcing a bad position & habits.

- Make sure you're always in the 'right' position on your ski, from the time you get up to the time you're done. Use all the time you're skiing to reinforce standing in the right position even if you're just resting behind the boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1j-7MS6YLc

- When that's comfortable work on pull-out/coasting drills seen below. Keep the strong position. Initiate the outward movement by shifting your outside hip in the desired direction. Try to get in a good lean, come up, coast, and do it again. Take video so you can see what you look like, work on trying to look like they do in the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WsVhsn-RlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLfNGee5LKo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8XqIMwABsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYHKMHBJYdA

I don't know if you have a course available (it's not strictly needed), but another way of working on and learning that position is to hold it the entire length of the course. If you have an adjustable rope shorten it to 22 or 28 off. Pull out and hold the position wider than the buoys. If you're in a good position you'll be able to hold it that wide and get lower and lower into a good lean. If you're not in the right position you'll find yourself getting pulled inside the buoys. Just go back & forth on either side reinforcing a good position. You can do all of that without crossing the wake.

Now just doing pullouts and stuff isn't always 'fun' so ski a bit and have fun, but take some time to try to work on the right position with the wake out of the equation (or just something to do if you find yourself out with a bunch of people). Once that starts feeling good and comfortable you can work on adding the wake.

You can also work on things on land. In retrospect I'm not sure how much it helped while I was learning or not but you can hold your position with the handle attached to anything, or do things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMBIVkQDMU (and part2/part3)

Regarding the bindings, just stick with the toe plate between now and your Coble's trip. Once you're there you can ask to demo anything in the shop (double boots, different skis, etc). That way you can try it and decide if it feels better.

After your trip you'll also get a good idea on what a 197 wake looks & feels like compared to yours.
Patrick - thanks for this post....

So many drills - so little time...
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