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Old 07-10-2013, 05:36 AM
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12 and 13 x30 stereo upgrades

Has anyone dabbled with additional subs and amps, in these models? I have an additional 12 in "in the hole" and it just isnt doing what I had hoped for. When the observer seat is open, it gets alot better, but I would really prefer a diffferent and better location, that would allow it, to really sound, the way it should... Any ideas? and if you have additional stuff, please post some pics!!
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:26 PM
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Scott,
First....Given the very long waveforms associated with bass frequencies it is generally a bad idea to have multiple sub locations in a towboat. Now, multiple subs, tightly collected, compound loaded, oriented the same, with the same boundaries, from the same location produces excellent results. Different types of subs (infinite baffle/air suspension/bass reflex/etc.) and different loading methods (direct radiating/boundary loading/cavity loading/etc.) create phase inequities that can be more destructive than those phasing problems created by distance inequities.
Second....When you place a subwoofer in an enclosed compartment/locker, as compared to a direct-radiating scenario, you lose an easy 5 to 6 dB of output. That means that the sub excursion has to travel four times as far and the amplifier has to produce four times the power just to break even and make up for the compromised location. The subwoofer and amplifier that operates the most conservatively always sounds the best. And the pairing pushed the hardest sounds the worst.
Third....The expansive compartment/locker and the adjoining bow and gunnel cavities create a very compliant air space. And, in a real sense you have placed an enclosure inside an enclosure. At minimum you need a vent with an open area (collective louvers) equal to the radiating surface of the woofer(s). A bigger vent is better. A smaller vent has more acoustic resistance. A larger vent has less acoustic resistance. The ratio of cavity compliance to vent resistance creates a very real filter. The direct result is a major boat shaker and not much of a musical bass maker because the upper bass is pretty much filtered and gone. Plus, you have a hole between the sub and the coaxials & components that produce the upper bass harmonics that define the bass, provide pitch accuracy and tonal construction. As an experiment, try listening to a lowpassed sub in isolation (without the benefit of mids) and you will find it to sound drunk and muddy.
So there are your challenges and your solutions. Now, marry these basic acoustic principles to what your particualr boat gives you.

David
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:58 AM
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thanks dave. although well above me, i truly appreciate your input. in my quandrie, the infinite jl was left and is being powered by the amp that came with the boat. didnt see, just not using it and there is nothing else that would really work in its location. a friend of mine said its like putting the sub in a trunk and listening to it, outside the vehicle with the trunk closed? made since but im still in search of a solution. Have yall done anything with this model yet?
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:16 PM
Tommy1005 Tommy1005 is offline
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would it not be possible to build a box behind where the IB sub is mounted and swap the IB sub to a more substantial sub, like a W6, Sundown, Treo, something along those lines?
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy1005 View Post
would it not be possible to build a box behind where the IB sub is mounted and swap the IB sub to a more substantial sub, like a W6, Sundown, Treo, something along those lines?
That is one possibility, and a very good suggestion because the subwoofer would be direct radiating, seal/sandwich the console wall between the sub driver and enclosure, and totally negate the compartment/cavity losses.
If you can do this with two side-by-side subs it's even better.
A variation of this would be using a bandpass enclosure that also serves to eliminate the console compartment/cavity losses. There is an X80 in the Earmark installation gallery showing this approach.
Another option is to locate the sub/enclosure behind the existing sub, remove the factory sub, and convert that opening to a vent. If the sub isn't sealed against the exterior vent opening then the driver's output and stored/reflected radiation form the compartment/cavity arrive at the vent somewhat out of phase. It's not ideal but an improvement over the current scenario. And, this method may allow you to use a much larger sub driver.

David
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:43 AM
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if i go in that area, i would loose the ice chest, directly behind the factory sub.. I wouldn't mind giving up a little coffin seat space, but the ice chest location?, thats just rude!!
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
That is one possibility, and a very good suggestion because the subwoofer would be direct radiating, seal/sandwich the console wall between the sub driver and enclosure, and totally negate the compartment/cavity losses.
If you can do this with two side-by-side subs it's even better.
A variation of this would be using a bandpass enclosure that also serves to eliminate the console compartment/cavity losses. There is an X80 in the Earmark installation gallery showing this approach.
Another option is to locate the sub/enclosure behind the existing sub, remove the factory sub, and convert that opening to a vent. If the sub isn't sealed against the exterior vent opening then the driver's output and stored/reflected radiation form the compartment/cavity arrive at the vent somewhat out of phase. It's not ideal but an improvement over the current scenario. And, this method may allow you to use a much larger sub driver.

David
Thread hijack!

I would really like to do this setup -- Replace the IB sub and place an enclosure in the factory storage compartment of my x2. Do you guys build boxes to fix a 12in sub in this area??
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SILENTxNOISE View Post
Thread hijack!

I would really like to do this setup -- Replace the IB sub and place an enclosure in the factory storage compartment of my x2. Do you guys build boxes to fix a 12in sub in this area??
Sure. You can contact Odin with Earmark for specifics and he can walk you through the process which is a little different when the fabricator doesn't have possesion of the particular boat.

David
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