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  #51  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattsCraft View Post
The system works just fine. Easy to adjust the timers for overflow added bags. A 15 minute job to add the bags if you purchase the correct parts. MC has done a good job to make the system somewhat idiot proof. The floats/senders tell you exactly what is in the on-board hard tanks and timer adjustments allow you to fill your overflows to a relative accurate level.

I see these complaints as OE, I am not having any problems and as mentioned, go back to '09 and you had a major process to adjust the timers, no way of even calculating what was in your bags other then visual etc. I feel the PnP system was far worse and this system is about as good as it can get. You can set up and us the profiles, or you can override it completely and manual fill and empty.
Did you do anything special with your install to prevent the aftermarket bags from collapsing on themselves and restricting the venting when draining?
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  #52  
Old 06-12-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Did you do anything special with your install to prevent the aftermarket bags from collapsing on themselves and restricting the venting when draining?
Nope - Overflow goes into the front of the sumo bag - closest to the overflow, overflow is moved to the front top of the sumo bag. Bag fills and drains with no issue. Keep in mind, with this configuration, you will never get all the water out of the bag due to the angle of the boat and fill/drain potion of the bag.
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  #53  
Old 06-12-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattsCraft View Post
OK boys, pretty sure this is how the system works. Note... This is not 100% substantiated by MC, however it all makes sense.

First - I have installed 2-600lb Sumo sacs in the rears - Perfect size for the X25 and just the right amount of extra for surfing with 2-8 peeps and 70% full for wakeboarding. A 10 min install.

The ballast tank fill and empty from the "Profile" is based on time only. Meaning, the system does not know how full the bags are, nor does it consider the actual tank levels. You need to find out how much time it takes to fill your bags to 100%, from there, like in my case if you want the total to be 70% follow this procedure.

Go to your profile i.e. Max Wake - I found to fill the rear tanks and 600lb bags was 8.5 min. If you want the the total system to be at 70% from here, switch the pumps to empty, once you have the BIG screen in that profile on the tanks at the correct level, shut off the pump and save your profile. Your Max Wake setting is now at the correct level. i.e. 70%

The system will now calculate the time to fill to 70% for that particular profile. Keep in mind, with overflow bags it is not going to be 100% accurate as the system again, only monitors time, other factors such as filling in motion or via battery only etc. (Not recommended by me) will effect this. The same rules apply for filling and emptying regardless of year:

Fill sitting still at 1500 RPM, empty in motion at 1500 RPM or more! Your pumps will perform at optimum, last longer, impellers longer etc. I had 390 hrs on my last boat, never lost a pump or had to replace an impeller and they were going strong when I sold the boat!

Now when you go to the Ballast/Trim section, this screen gives you what is actually in the hard tanks (Floats), again, if you have bags, does not show what is left there... Only the hard tanks, if after you empty, go to this screen to see if your empty time is long enough and adjust accordingly.

For me with the 600lb bags, I have set the timers as follows:

Port Fill - 8:30...................Port Empty - 9:30
KGB Fill - 6:00.................KGB Empty - 6:30
Starboard Fill 8:30............Starboard Empty - 9:30

Hope this helps, system is flawless, works well.

P.S. I did have a screen lock up this weekend, turn of the battery switch, back on and the system re-boots. Don't hate on MC, this is just computer FM - Fing Magic - Never had a computer or smart phone lock up ever.........
I have had to do several battery cycles for the screen locking up - I do it on my HP all the time. As long as it's that easy to fix - Oh well...

Are you running any additional front ballast or only the Sumos in the rear?
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  #54  
Old 06-17-2013, 10:41 AM
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OK, so finally got back on the water. I haven't mentally tabulated all this info yet but here it is:

Verified tanks were empty on launch. Get boat on water, 28% in Port, 43% in Starboard. Drain them both to zero.

Idle boat to 1500 rpm and hit fill all. Timers are almost perfect, center tank shooting out overflow at 94% (bit more timer adjustment required), rear tanks out overflow at 97% and 99%.

Hit "empty all" (my timers for empty are set for 30 seconds longer than fill time), drain all to zero (using 1500 RPM idle). Turn boat off and on again. Front tank now showing 0%, rear tanks 98% and 99%. I know the senders are float based as we sit there rolling in the waves I can actually watch the percentages change 1-2%.

Other things I've noted: when using profiles, the percentages will always be timer based and not sender based, so, when I go into Max Wake for example I'll always get the timer-based percentage and not the sender one. I verified this while the profile was activated and toggling between the ballast screen and the profile screen while turning the engine on and off. So while a profile is active it won't actually let you adjust anything based on those timers (using the ballast screen or the actual hard switches). I'll attach a video to show this.

My assumptions:

1) The system does in fact work, however, drain times are drastically longer than fill times with the FlyHigh system, likely due to decreased venting efficiency while draining.
2) Matt'sCraft system is working for him as he is only on his active profiles, so, all numbers being timer-based only means he wont be having the same issues as us, or at least appears to be working (Matt, could you verify this, maybe deactivate your profiles and tell us if the senders give you conflicting info)
3) Many of my initial problems are caused by having my drain timers set way to short, probably based on some faulty assumptions I made early on.

My next outing I'm going to add a couple minutes to drain times to verify. I'm also going to contact wakemakers and ask them about decreased venting efficiency (sucking out of a rigid container versus a collapsable one).

Summary: I think the system works as described by the guys with the 2010's. Aligning timers with senders would theoretically make the profile screen closer integrated while the profiles are or aren't active.
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  #55  
Old 06-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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I can't seem to be able to upload the video, however, the video shows me in an active profile attempting draining the tanks to zero using "empty all." Once I get them to zero I turn the boat off and on again, and the tanks now show 20% and 28%. I hit "empty all" again and it immediately goes to zero. It won't even let me override with the manual switches (where it says "override 30 second" with a countdown or something like that).

Looking at this video again leads me to a second assumption, Matt's system does work as described because his timers are tight enough that they match the sensors or pretty close as he would still get the sender levels when he turns his boat off and on.

Is it reasonable to assume that drain times are just much longer than fill times and that the assumption that this was not the case is what's screwing us all up? Maybe the Sumo's vent easier than the FlyHigh's?
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2013, 08:44 PM
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Spoke to wakemakers the drain time will be longer than the fill time. There really should not be any venting inefficiencies. So, unlikely that the bags are screwing me up.

The other issue I'm noting is the fact that I ran the pumps last time I loaded the boat and confirmed the bags were empty, however, got on the water and had 20 and 28% in the system. 20% in a 200lb hard tank is only about 40lbs of water or 18L (4.5 gallons). I wonder if this could just be draining down during the launch process or shifts from the bag into the hard tank during trailering, coupled with some inherent inaccuracies in a float sender system.

Just trying to talk myself through this. My plan for next outing is to add 3-4 minutes to rear drain times and see if that fixes the problem. I'm also going to have the dealer inspect the impellers during my break-in service as I would not want them to be damaged from running dry too much.
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  #57  
Old 06-18-2013, 02:45 PM
EA2010 EA2010 is offline
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Senders and timers ... just to see how full/empty your tanks are on the screen. Wow, is this the direction we're heading? Is this really important for surfing or boarding?

I have all my after-market sacs connected to their own pump with its own switch. I hit fill and wait until water starts to spill from the overflows. If I want to, I can watch the sacs fill/drain in each locker; but I've come to trust the overflows while filling. If I want more ballast (which we all do) I connect my Tsunami pump and manually fill/drain additional sacs. Works awesome and is actually quicker than using the stock/aftermarket pumps. Stress free, as well.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the ballast tanks (stock or after-market) should be managed manually as opposed to using the screen. Seems to be the only logical solution. This is how we first started surfing (on a 2006 X-80) and we never had any frustrations with the ballast tanks.

It pains me to see people who "upgraded" to the 2013 screen (on the advice of their dealer) have to deal with the same issues with the software ...
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  #58  
Old 06-18-2013, 02:50 PM
EA2010 EA2010 is offline
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... sometimes technology isn't always the solution!
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  #59  
Old 06-18-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick911 View Post
Is it reasonable to assume that drain times are just much longer than fill times and that the assumption that this was not the case is what's screwing us all up? Maybe the Sumo's vent easier than the FlyHigh's?
Drain times would be longer. You don't have the advantage of gravity unless you are on the trailer. You are attempting to pump against water pressure, whereas filling you have the slight advantage of water pressing on the bottom of the hull, attempting to seek it's own level, until you get to the point where you are raising the head height of the water.
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  #60  
Old 06-18-2013, 06:30 PM
EA2010 EA2010 is offline
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I have found that draining goes a lot faster when you nudge the boat into gear. The pull of water away from the hull seems to speed things up ...
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