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Old 05-08-2013, 03:01 PM
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System setup help

I'm basically gutting my entire audio system and want to double check that I'm wiring everything correctly. I'll be putting the following in it:

6 Polk Audio db651 6.5 coaxials for the inboat speakers - 4 ohm speakers
Pair of same Polk speakers replacing worn out speakers in a pair of tower pods - 4 ohm
Pair of MB Quart tower speakers - 4 ohm
2ohm +2 DVC subwoofer
KAC-8402 4 channel Amp (60 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (90 watts x 4 at 2 ohms)
180 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)
)
JL Audio M6450 6 Channel amp - 45 watts RMS x 6 at 4 ohms (75 watts RMS x 6 at 2 ohms)
150 watts RMS x 3 bridged output at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)



I'm trying to determine the best way to hook everything up. Here's my thoughts.

All in-boat speakers will be on the JL 6 channel and the subwoofer. Bow speakers on 2 channels, rear 4 speakers run in parrallel on 2 channels, sub on two channels. Whats the best way to do this as far as bridging to get the most power to each speaker with this setup?

The 4 tower speakers will go on the kenwood 4 channel amp. Should I just use 1 channel for each speaker, or should I bridge these? Does it matter?

Does it make sense to wire my Front pre-amps to the JL amp, and the rear pre-amps to the tower speakers so I can use the fade feature to keep from blowing people out of the boat when I crank up the tunes for the rider? My deck has a dedicated sub-preamp, so I won't lose sub sound when use the fade. The sub pre-amp would be connected to the channels I use for the subwoofer on the JL amp.

How do I wire that sub up? The sub came with the boat, and I really have never dealt with a dual voice coil sub before. Should I sell this one and just get a single voice coil to optimize power? It seems to be a nice sub (kenwood). The magnet on the thing is huge.

If I wired as described above, is this what I should expect?
JL amp
Channel 1/2 (bow speakers) - 45W @4ohm
Channel 3/4 (rear/mid in-boats) ran in parallel - 75W @ 2ohms, so 37.5W per speaker RMS?
Channel 5/6 (Sub) - No idea for the best solution here.

Kenwood Amp
Channel 1/2 (first pair of tower speakers) - 60W RMS @ 4ohms
Channel 3/4 (second pair of tower speakers) - 60W RMS @ 4ohms
Can I bridge these pairs of speakers to get higher outputs?

Sound right?
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2013, 08:50 AM
bsloop bsloop is online now
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Well, 2 days and no responses.

What components do you currently own vs considering purchase?

The amps appear to be a little under powered for the speakers you have selected. Its usually better to over power (head room) than under power. Especially given the usually lower true amp output due to lower boat battery voltage than the voltage amps are rated with.

What is the sub? I assume you mean it is a dual voice coil 2ohm so the final resistance will be either 1 or 4 ohm?
As long as space or wiring skills are not an issue, I usually recommend a separate mono amp. More bang for the buck and greater flexibility if something fails or upgraded.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:03 AM
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EarmarkMarine EarmarkMarine is offline
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Mike,
You are using 14.4 volts power standards on the Kenwood amplifier and 12.5 volt standards on some of the power specs on the JL Audio amplifier. I would look at the two amplifiers according to the same standards.
The JL Audio M6450 was from a period where JL Audio used a more conservative approach to rating. Later when JL Audio adopted the same CEA2006 stanadards that the Kenwood uses the same JL Audio amplifier became a 600 watt unit (14.4 volts) at 2-ohms and 450 watts at 4-ohms.
The sub would have to be wired in series to obtain a safe 4-ohm load for bridging. You could wire two channels to the independent 2-ohm voice coils for the identical power result. But, a simple seriesed/bridged set-up would work best.
Worth mentioning is that the M6450 was before that amplifier received a protection circuit that lowered the power supply voltage as the amplifier approached its thermal limits. The Kenwood amplifiers in general have been very reliable but can easily have thermal issues. So I would not run either of these amplifiers at 2-ohm stereo and 4-ohm bridged (same load) on all channels as that is running the power supplies at redline.
Yes, you can bridge the Kenwood amplifier into two-channels to produce more power into a 4-ohm load but you will only be able to drive one pair of speakers.
Like mentioned above by bsloop, it would be helpful to know the particular subwoofer and know its power rating and it would be helpful to add another couple of channels to your amplification to keep everything running a bit more conservatively, especially through that July/August period.

David
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:03 AM
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I can't remember the sub model off the top of my head. It is a dvc, each voice coil is 2 ohms though, and it had a power rating of close to 1000 watts if I remember correctly. It's a Kenwood... I believe it was the factory option in the boat at the time (A supra 20v... cant say that too loud). I'll eventually get another monoblock sub, but I'm on a budget right now and that will have to wait. Thanks for the responses.
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Last edited by mzimme; 05-10-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:11 AM
bsloop bsloop is online now
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didn't see an answer to the current vs purchased so if you are still planning:
I am assuming you are purchasing the 4 sets of polks and currently own the MB tower, subs and amps?

Check out these Bravox close outs http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=269-515
Don't let $40 a pair scare you, these speakers are VERY similar to WetSounds xs-65 (wink)
I have used these and their big brother with excellent success. Highs are nicely bright with a 1" tweet vs polks 3/4.
The polks are not bad and $62 on amazon but Bravox still put $100 back in your budget.

If you are set on only these two amps - your proposed set up with the sub wired parallel =4 ohm and ch 5-6 bridged will allow only one wire run to amp and would be the same as running independent wires from each side of the sub to 5 and 6.
This set up is severely underpowering your speakers and will likely result in damage or unsatisfactory performance at the least. Get a 12v fan from the auto parts store to blow over the amps. (I do this regardless)

#2 -
Use the JL amp to power 6 inboats in 4 ohm load.
Use Kenwood for the tower. KW has independent gains for both channels so both tower brands can be tailored.
New Mono sub amp. Neither amp is close to ideal for pushing a sub.

#3 JL same as above -
Sell Kenwood and upgrade tower amp - tower speakers will usually be pushed harder than inboat so this would be the first amp to upgrade to above needed output. A decent 2 channel that is 2 ohm stable would be relatively cheap.
New sub amp
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:18 AM
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mzimme mzimme is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsloop View Post
didn't see an answer to the current vs purchased so if you are still planning:
I am assuming you are purchasing the 4 sets of polks and currently own the MB tower, subs and amps?Check out these Bravox close outs http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=269-515
Don't let $40 a pair scare you, these speakers are VERY similar to WetSounds xs-65 (wink)
I have used these and their big brother with excellent success. Highs are nicely bright with a 1" tweet vs polks 3/4.
The polks are not bad and $62 on amazon but Bravox still put $100 back in your budget.

If you are set on only these two amps - your proposed set up with the sub wired parallel =4 ohm and ch 5-6 bridged will allow only one wire run to amp and would be the same as running independent wires from each side of the sub to 5 and 6.
This set up is severely underpowering your speakers and will likely result in damage or unsatisfactory performance at the least. Get a 12v fan from the auto parts store to blow over the amps. (I do this regardless)

#2 -
Use the JL amp to power 6 inboats in 4 ohm load.
Use Kenwood for the tower. KW has independent gains for both channels so both tower brands can be tailored.
New Mono sub amp. Neither amp is close to ideal for pushing a sub.

#3 JL same as above -
Sell Kenwood and upgrade tower amp - tower speakers will usually be pushed harder than inboat so this would be the first amp to upgrade to above needed output. A decent 2 channel that is 2 ohm stable would be relatively cheap.
New sub amp
The bolded text is correct. Currently the boat has all kenwood speakers in it, but they're weathered and need replacing. I think I'll go with option number 2 and look for an amp that can push this subwoofer. I think the 6 channel will be fine for the in-boats, but the sub will be severely lacking the power it needs.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:56 AM
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To add to this, I don't expect my alternator to be able to keep up with 3 amps by any means, so short of upgrading from the 70amp alternator I currently have, is the best idea just to have a couple house batteries and a starter battery on a perko switch? My thought was to use the starter battery for starting and having the tunes on when under power, then switch to the house batteries while coving out and hanging out. Then just putting the house batteries on a charger at the end of the day.
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Last edited by mzimme; 05-10-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:03 PM
bsloop bsloop is online now
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3 amps/2000w is getting on the upper end of going though a perko, IMO (especially if it is not the HD model).

Better to hook all the stereo, including HU to the house bank and start/run everything else off the other.
When running, select All or 2. You can change perko when running, just don't overshoot to OFF!
Think of a battery like a shock absorber for the alt; the more battery, the less voltage change from the amps that the alt has to deal with. If maintaining voltage becomes a problem while running, drop back on the sub. Generally speaking, it will consume as much energy as all 10 of your little speakers combined.

If your alt needs more output, check into an electric speciality shop rebuilding may be cheaper than new. After I burned up my 10si, Auto Electric in Lawrence put in the most heavy duty parts he could cram in the case. It now puts out a RELIABLE 130amps cost me about $160. This is not the cheap crap that DB electric online uses to bump their alts.

For a couple hours of cove playing, especially since you have A/B amps, I would recommend one 31 series battery equivalent per amp. 3 amps = 3 stereo batteries + start
Fewer larger batteries are better than more smaller batteries. Check out the Interstate 4D deep cycle or an 8D deep cycle.
Full charge at the end of the day is always best.

Think its getting expensive? When you go bigger in one area the rest must grow accordingly.
Generally, you will find as much as spent on speakers, will cost in amps, will cost in batteries and wiring.
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Last edited by bsloop; 05-10-2013 at 02:15 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2013, 02:57 PM
roush611 roush611 is offline
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Please post pictures of this set up installed I am very interested.
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2013, 03:17 PM
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sloop,

I already have 1 34M optima blue top. I suppose I could use that as my "starter" battery since it has no problem cranking, and it will offer a little bit of security for things like running bilge and ballast as well as the slew of other electronics on this boat. Which of those interstates is better? 8D or 4D? Are these AGM style batteries as well like my Optima? I think I'll start with 2 on my stereo bank and see how things go. 3 batteries on the house bank is going to hurt too much all at once. Also, how do I wire the house bank together, and then to the perko?
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