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Old 04-15-2013, 07:09 AM
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Wouter Wouter is offline
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help with transmission please!

Hello,

So the season finally started over here and i thought it would be a good idea to change the transmission fluid before putting my 1990 prostar 190 back in the water since i had never done this after buying the boat 7 years ago (yes, yes I know) and I've experienced "dirty neutral" on this translmission in the past.

I got all (i think) the old fluid out ( it was a bit brown and thicker than the new fluid) and put in 1,8 l (1.9 quarts) of (castrol dex 3 transmax multi vehicle ATF) dexron iii mineral transmission fluid in.

First everything ran fine for a moment then suddenly (at slalom speed) the tranny slipped and then impossible to get the boat back into gear ( only reverse is working.) got towed back to the dock, and played with the fluid level. Checked the level again when hot and noticed some bubbles on the dipstick. The level seemed ok but hard to read (smudges on dipstick)

A bit less fluid gave better result and forward would sometimes engage but sometimes slip again.

Did I uses the wrong fluid?

Can to much or to little fluid cause such complete failure?

Am I in in for a transmission rebuild? How can I be sure? (would prefer to not pull the tranny unless really necessary)

If so what parts and gaskets would i need ( the transmission is a 1/1 velvet drive, the engine is a indmar 351 w) or is there some kind of transmission rebuild kit that one could buy?

If I have the tranny rebuild or do it myself, should the damper plate also be changed?

How difficult is this job (i ve changed about everything except the block on this engine but know virtually nothing about transmissions)

thancks in advance for your wisdom.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:37 AM
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CantRepeat CantRepeat is online now
 
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From the manual:

Code:
Dexron II, Type F, and other hydraulic transmission fluids which meet Derron Allison Type C3 specifications are recommended for use in all Velvet Drive marine transmission.
So your fine with your choice of fluid.

Too little fluid is far worse then too much. With too much you will just get some blow by on the trans vent cap. It's that little floating cap on top of a tube on the back part of the trans. It's near the coupler.

The transmission are pretty easy to rebuild, I would bte you could do it yourself. You seem to have basic automotive skill sets, IE you did a lot of work on the motor already.

There a few threads about doing the rebuild yourself here and here is a link to the manuals.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=32581


Too little will make it slip for sure.

What has probably happened is the older fluid with all the clutch particles in it gave enough friction to make the forward clutches work. Since reverse sees far less use the are not worn down at the same rate as forward clutches. Hence the reverse still working.

You can try adding some more fluid and then running the forward gears with out giving it any gas. The idea is to let the pump run fluid through the clutches and see if they will start to grab. Do not rev the motor up while it is slipping, all you'll be doing is glazing the clutch pack.

Here is a thread with lots of info and even rebuild parts house recommendations.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=52547


In the end, I believe you are in for a rebuild and it's pretty easy. I and other users here who had no previous experience in automatic transmissions have done the rebuild.

TIP: Soak your new clutch plates overnight in trans fluid.

In a boat that old I would change out the damper plate while I have the trans out.
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Last edited by CantRepeat; 04-15-2013 at 09:08 AM. Reason: not enough coffee
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:49 AM
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Wouter Wouter is offline
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Thanks for the quick reply and manual. I guess I just wish there was a fireproof way to check if a rebuild is necessary or if it's just a problem with the amount of fluid... I seem to remember you can check the fluid pressure somehow, is that right?
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:20 AM
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Table Rocker Table Rocker is offline
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I would change the fluid again. You don't really get all of it out when you suck it dry, there is still fluid in the cooler, cooler hoses and internal pump.

Did the fluid that came out look and smell like ATF? Just because you put the correct fluid in, doesn't mean the correct fluid came out. You might have a mix of two fluids.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:40 AM
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Wouter Wouter is offline
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Nope, the fluid that came out was brownish and much thicker than what I put in and , to be honest, didn't look like ATF to me, but then again, the tranny was working before the fluid change...
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:41 AM
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CantRepeat CantRepeat is online now
 
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A pressure test is pretty simple to perform provide you have the right gauge.

Locate the 3/8 plug on the back of the trans, connect your pressure gauge there.

Follow the instructions in the second SS and check your pressure against the chart.

Even if you have the correct pressure it does not guarantee the clutch pack is good.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Nope, the fluid that came out was brownish and much thicker than what I put in and , to be honest, didn't look like ATF to me, but then again, the tranny was working before the fluid change...
It is possible to run these transmission on motor oil, but the manual says to only do so if the motor does not exceed 3000 rpm. I have only heard about this being done when the Velvet drive is connected to a diesel and have never seen oil used in this trans in a Mastercraft with a gas engine.

edit

My 92 had not been change in a while when I first bought it. The fluid was very brownish when I changed it.

/edit
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:01 AM
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Wouter Wouter is offline
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Thanks for that. I suppose that pressure test would at least indicate if fluid level is correct, right?
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Thanks for that. I suppose that pressure test would at least indicate if fluid level is correct, right?
Not necessarily. You can have full fluid and have a bad pump which would show no pressure on the gauge.

How are you checking the fluid level?
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:38 AM
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Wouter Wouter is offline
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Just with the dipstick after running for more or less 15 minutes, but the dipstick is always a bit smudged and what I read as "filled" also contains air bubbles...
Anyway, would a transmission fail completely (ie not fall in gear) from overfilling it or having a mixture of different fluids? (The fluid that came out was definitely different and I can't really tell if I managed to extract ALL the old fluid)
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