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  #41  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
It's supposed to be the Commander in Chief AND Congress who puts people in harm's way. Unfortunately, there's not enough transparency or public debate showing exactly what is happening, unless C-Span shows it.
^^+1... And I bet we never get to the bottom of Benghazi and having a marine sit in Mexican jail for 4.x months - unconscionable.
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  #42  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
Why is your anger so pointedly directed at "liberals"? Who do you consider to be "not a liberal" in the political arena today?

There are few "conservatives" when it comes to the public purse in the political arena today. Both major parties have been complicit in passing unfunded benefit improvements for seniors for short-term political gain (remember the unfunded $40 Billion/year prescription drug program for seniors championed and passed by the majority Republicans and signed by GWB? I do.) Even the Tea Partiers, who IMO are intent on tearing apart the nation to "reduce spending" without actually having any fiscal impact, have unlimited military spending in their platform.

It is pointed at Liberals for good reason. A liberal will jaw you to death about being politically correct and its all their way or the highway. Whenever you try to talk to a liberal they spin anything around and have the media resource to do it. Any opposing view is flamed to rubbish and bigotry.

You want to talk about tea par tiers and Republicans like I am one. If you want my opinion the party system has got to go. That is the root of the problem. The other is money.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1Tim 6:10.

Not just themselves with sorrow. Us too; on our behalf.

I could care less for Bush. I voted for Gore. (regret that now) even though I hate Bush. Then McCain then Romney. (regret those as well) So you assume like every other liberal out there. Assume that it is ok to keep giving up our freedoms at the cost of these programs. I was in the Army. You cannot tell me the military needs that much money. In fact they could spend less painting anchors gold on navy ships than providing me with desert gear while in Afghanistan. Which I bought myself. Spending is the issue.

Point i'm making is that selfishness and money are the root of all evil in this issue.
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  #43  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Traxx822 View Post
It is pointed at Liberals for good reason. A liberal will jaw you to death about being politically correct and its all their way or the highway. Whenever you try to talk to a liberal they spin anything around and have the media resource to do it. Any opposing view is flamed to rubbish and bigotry.

You want to talk about tea par tiers and Republicans like I am one. If you want my opinion the party system has got to go. That is the root of the problem. The other is money.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1Tim 6:10.

Not just themselves with sorrow. Us too; on our behalf.

I could care less for Bush. I voted for Gore. (regret that now) even though I hate Bush. Then McCain then Romney. (regret those as well) So you assume like every other liberal out there. Assume that it is ok to keep giving up our freedoms at the cost of these programs. I was in the Army. You cannot tell me the military needs that much money. In fact they could spend less painting anchors gold on navy ships than providing me with desert gear while in Afghanistan. Which I bought myself. Spending is the issue.

Point i'm making is that selfishness and money are the root of all evil in this issue.
You voted for Gore??? one less beer for you...
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  #44  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
#1 - I have been paying attention.

Sorry if first paragraph reads as if blaming business - not meant to. I was pointing to business as being unable to grow because of uncertainty caused by gov't.

My compensation is based on capital spending at small and medium size businesses... that ain't happening. I know you can't be clairvoyant however in the business planning cycle your inputs drive your tactical execution. i.e. if you know tax burden on wages you can budget your overall labor burden as well as benefits burden. You can plan for a revenue stream if you have the cost inputs. Market pressures can be assessed and production/orders can be modified as you go along. However, if you don't know what's something is going to cost why step forward. I am not against any C Level compensation package as long as it is tied to growth of the the company they are running. Small and medium business owners are really on a 100% commission plan.

Regarding lag - you're absolutely right. Dorks in D.C. are pushing growth out at least 6-9 months.
Don't forget about them now having to pay for Obamacare too.
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  #45  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traxx822 View Post
A liberal will jaw you to death about being politically correct and its all their way or the highway.
Kind of like talking to a rabid Tea Partier...

Quote:
If you want my opinion the party system has got to go. That is the root of the problem.
You and I are in complete agreement.


Quote:
I could care less for Bush. I voted for Gore. (regret that now) even though I hate Bush. Then McCain then Romney. (regret those as well)
I voted Perot in '96, not because I thought he had a chance, but because I appreciated his message and wanted to broaden the participation of alternate parties in the political process. McCain in 2000 until he was bested by Shrub, then a third-party candidate in the general election because I couldn't stomach either Gore or Shrub. 2004 was Kerry, because Shrub had proven himself not only incapable but a real and present danger, and in reaction to the disgraceful Rove-ing of Kerry's honorable service. 2008 was Obama, hoping that he was enough of an outsider to keep some of his promises about restoring some of the rights that Shrub had decided I no longer needed. What a disappointment that was. 2012 was third party again, because I knew who Obama was, but Romney was way too squishy to figure out who he was.

Quote:
So you assume like every other liberal out there. Assume that it is ok to keep giving up our freedoms at the cost of these programs.
I think YOU assume too much. I am enamored of neither the "government can and should solve everyone's problems" philosophy of the current Liberals, nor of the "Government can't and shouldn't solve any problems except those caused by small countries to Exxon" philosophy of the current Conservatives. If there was a politician from the last 50 years that I would vote for today, it would probably be Barry Goldwater, whose conservative principles would get him bounced out of the Republican party today.

/frank
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  #46  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
Kind of like talking to a rabid Tea Partier...


You and I are in complete agreement.




I voted Perot in '96, not because I thought he had a chance, but because I appreciated his message and wanted to broaden the participation of alternate parties in the political process. McCain in 2000 until he was bested by Shrub, then a third-party candidate in the general election because I couldn't stomach either Gore or Shrub. 2004 was Kerry, because Shrub had proven himself not only incapable but a real and present danger, and in reaction to the disgraceful Rove-ing of Kerry's honorable service. 2008 was Obama, hoping that he was enough of an outsider to keep some of his promises about restoring some of the rights that Shrub had decided I no longer needed. What a disappointment that was. 2012 was third party again, because I knew who Obama was, but Romney was way too squishy to figure out who he was.


I think YOU assume too much. I am enamored of neither the "government can and should solve everyone's problems" philosophy of the current Liberals, nor of the "Government can't and shouldn't solve any problems except those caused by small countries to Exxon" philosophy of the current Conservatives. If there was a politician from the last 50 years that I would vote for today, it would probably be Barry Goldwater, whose conservative principles would get him bounced out of the Republican party today.

/frank
Don't forget Dr. Ron Paul - a true patriot and constitutionalist... +1 on Barry Goldwater...
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  #47  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
Why is your anger so pointedly directed at "liberals"? Who do you consider to be "not a liberal" in the political arena today?

There are few "conservatives" when it comes to the public purse in the political arena today. Both major parties have been complicit in passing unfunded benefit improvements for seniors for short-term political gain (remember the unfunded $40 Billion/year prescription drug program for seniors championed and passed by the majority Republicans and signed by GWB? I do.) Even the Tea Partiers, who IMO are intent on tearing apart the nation to "reduce spending" without actually having any fiscal impact, have unlimited military spending in their platform.
As I have said & written many times before, I think the extremists in all parties should go pound sand, so the rest can work out some decent legislation. That said, somebody has to watch the chicken coop- if everyone else shifts to one side or the other, the extremists can find themselves where the centrists used to be.

We can't have a "no tax" government because we do have people who can't care for themselves, in the literal sense. Unfortunately, we also have many who 'can't seem to' care for themselves and they have been lumped into the group who really need help. Then, there are those who just WON'T care for themselves and they're the ones I want off of the government teat. It costs a lot of money to run even the smallest government, in a country of 315 Million (and growing). However, I don't know why they have to look for ways to spend money when the number of people who depend on the government keeps growing- I'm referring more to retirees who need help with everything, families who will always be on Welfare/food stamps, etc. People who stay in school do better in life- we all know that. Unfortunately, we have too many in this country who don't know this because they can't read, write, understand basic logic, math and never will because they don't want to. Those people will never stop voting for those who give them handouts and don't force the dependent to finish school, stop drinking/drugging and get out of the gangs/criminal activity they have become accustomed to.

I would like to see the system change to one that REQUIRES improvement by the recipients.

I was watching a TV show about some of MKE's unique places to eat while I was doing some things on the computer. At one point, I realized that I recognized the voice of the person who owns a crepe wagon. I had seen the canopy on his van at one of the job sites I have been working at, but thought it might be for someone else. He's also a carpenter. Turns out, he learned to weld aluminum at a previous carpentry job (or took it upon himself to ask how) and when he & his now-wife decided to start their business, he built the cart, from scratch, painted it, they came up with a name & logo, plan, etc. He built it specifically so it could be partially disassembled and stored in the back of their Dodge mini-van with the canopy strapped to the luggage rack for transport. They use all natural ingredients and instead of the normal batter, they use garbonzo beans to make the crepes. They shop at farmer's markets and they do pretty well at it.

This is pretty cool, on its own. It gets better. He's not even from this country- he came here from Germany in about 2003. The worst part- we have tens of millions of people who were born in this country, never spoke a language other than English and they "can't get a job to support themselves" or read, for that matter.

I call shenanigans!
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  #48  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:13 PM
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I also think the mainstream media needs to change, completely. I don't want them to be the de-facto source of information for most people if they continue to be biased so heavily. FACTS, not propaganda!
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  #49  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:30 PM
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I just read this whole thread... I can only re-think how disappointed I am in the leaders of our country. Wasted opportunities, time, energy and funds. Makes me sick!
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  #50  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
As I have said & written many times before, I think the extremists in all parties should go pound sand, so the rest can work out some decent legislation. That said, somebody has to watch the chicken coop- if everyone else shifts to one side or the other, the extremists can find themselves where the centrists used to be.

We can't have a "no tax" government because we do have people who can't care for themselves, in the literal sense. Unfortunately, we also have many who 'can't seem to' care for themselves and they have been lumped into the group who really need help. Then, there are those who just WON'T care for themselves and they're the ones I want off of the government teat. It costs a lot of money to run even the smallest government, in a country of 315 Million (and growing). However, I don't know why they have to look for ways to spend money when the number of people who depend on the government keeps growing- I'm referring more to retirees who need help with everything, families who will always be on Welfare/food stamps, etc. People who stay in school do better in life- we all know that. Unfortunately, we have too many in this country who don't know this because they can't read, write, understand basic logic, math and never will because they don't want to. Those people will never stop voting for those who give them handouts and don't force the dependent to finish school, stop drinking/drugging and get out of the gangs/criminal activity they have become accustomed to.

I would like to see the system change to one that REQUIRES improvement by the recipients.

I was watching a TV show about some of MKE's unique places to eat while I was doing some things on the computer. At one point, I realized that I recognized the voice of the person who owns a crepe wagon. I had seen the canopy on his van at one of the job sites I have been working at, but thought it might be for someone else. He's also a carpenter. Turns out, he learned to weld aluminum at a previous carpentry job (or took it upon himself to ask how) and when he & his now-wife decided to start their business, he built the cart, from scratch, painted it, they came up with a name & logo, plan, etc. He built it specifically so it could be partially disassembled and stored in the back of their Dodge mini-van with the canopy strapped to the luggage rack for transport. They use all natural ingredients and instead of the normal batter, they use garbonzo beans to make the crepes. They shop at farmer's markets and they do pretty well at it.

This is pretty cool, on its own. It gets better. He's not even from this country- he came here from Germany in about 2003. The worst part- we have tens of millions of people who were born in this country, never spoke a language other than English and they "can't get a job to support themselves" or read, for that matter.

I call shenanigans!
^^+1 -- lol on word choice...but noted.
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