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  #31  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:36 PM
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Yeah, I disagree with some of their recommendations, but it's a thoughtful stab at the problem.

Unfortunately, it still leaves us with a $1 Trillion deficit each and every year.
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  #32  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
Yeah, I disagree with some of their recommendations, but it's a thoughtful stab at the problem.

Unfortunately, it still leaves us with a $1 Trillion deficit each and every year.
As long as we start really reducing as opposed to the reducing the increase we can climb out of the whole. But how can we did ourselves out of a hole when businesses won't hire or use capital? No hiring and no capital spend - net result less revenue to D.C.

$112K+ produces the 70%+ of revenue D.C. gets http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html - a bit dated but very close. Here you can put in your AGI or gross to see who you are...gross puts my about 84% AGI puts me at about 77%. Even there I am in the 87% who produce revenue. Upper middle class pays the lions share of taxes and the top pays the rest.

Lions share of family income in my town falls into the 50K - 150K income...just in the last year or so local business has seen a bit of growth. Hire taxes mean these businesses are going to get hit again. http://www.plainfield-il.org/business/demographics.php

It's that bottom 50% - yes there is a demographic there that must be taken care of. But for example the pell grant number needs to be reduced - or program modified. Many of those who get pell grants drop out of college. Social Security and Medicare? Too much fraud and waste. Social security was never meant to be the nest egg for retirement - and most people don't save (bad).

You mentioned military pensions...no way that get's touched - no way no how - we are free because of the brave. The Commander in Chief puts these people in harms way - if that money was spent correctly and at the right rate - we would not need the wounded warriors fund... but that's another discussion.

Unfortunately, my prediction another 5 years of malaise in economic growth - more loss of business - less jobs. IMHO...
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
As long as we start really reducing as opposed to the reducing the increase we can climb out of the whole. But how can we did ourselves out of a hole when businesses won't hire or use capital? No hiring and no capital spend - net result less revenue to D.C.

$112K+ produces the 70%+ of revenue D.C. gets http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html - a bit dated but very close. Here you can put in your AGI or gross to see who you are...gross puts my about 84% AGI puts me at about 77%. Even there I am in the 87% who produce revenue. Upper middle class pays the lions share of taxes and the top pays the rest.

Lions share of family income in my town falls into the 50K - 150K income...just in the last year or so local business has seen a bit of growth. Hire taxes mean these businesses are going to get hit again. http://www.plainfield-il.org/business/demographics.php

It's that bottom 50% - yes there is a demographic there that must be taken care of. But for example the pell grant number needs to be reduced - or program modified. Many of those who get pell grants drop out of college. Social Security and Medicare? Too much fraud and waste. Social security was never meant to be the nest egg for retirement - and most people don't save (bad).

You mentioned military pensions...no way that get's touched - no way no how - we are free because of the brave. The Commander in Chief puts these people in harms way - if that money was spent correctly and at the right rate - we would not need the wounded warriors fund... but that's another discussion.

Unfortunately, my prediction another 5 years of malaise in economic growth - more loss of business - less jobs. IMHO...

FML These god dam liberals are so insane. How do they get away with it. Seriously. When do we start protesting.
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  #34  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
As long as we start really reducing as opposed to the reducing the increase we can climb out of the whole. But how can we did ourselves out of a hole when businesses won't hire or use capital? No hiring and no capital spend - net result less revenue to D.C.

$112K+ produces the 70%+ of revenue D.C. gets http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html - a bit dated but very close. Here you can put in your AGI or gross to see who you are...gross puts my about 84% AGI puts me at about 77%. Even there I am in the 87% who produce revenue. Upper middle class pays the lions share of taxes and the top pays the rest.

Lions share of family income in my town falls into the 50K - 150K income...just in the last year or so local business has seen a bit of growth. Hire taxes mean these businesses are going to get hit again. http://www.plainfield-il.org/business/demographics.php

It's that bottom 50% - yes there is a demographic there that must be taken care of. But for example the pell grant number needs to be reduced - or program modified. Many of those who get pell grants drop out of college. Social Security and Medicare? Too much fraud and waste. Social security was never meant to be the nest egg for retirement - and most people don't save (bad).

You mentioned military pensions...no way that get's touched - no way no how - we are free because of the brave. The Commander in Chief puts these people in harms way - if that money was spent correctly and at the right rate - we would not need the wounded warriors fund... but that's another discussion.

Unfortunately, my prediction another 5 years of malaise in economic growth - more loss of business - less jobs. IMHO...
Just for a second, imagine that you own a business. Now, imagine that the economy is in constant flux and there's no way to predict if your revenue/orders will change, remain static or, in some cases, end (based on whatever it is that you sell). If you can't be sure that you'll see more orders, would you hire more people? Of course not! That could mean the failure of your business- you can't sustain high wage burden without increasing revenue. Do you take more orders without increasing your staffing level? Only if your current staffing allows for the increase without quality/delivery time making it a problem. If you have a high-demand product or service and you see a roller coaster of demand, how do you deal with this- layoffs, eat the cost of wages when business is slow or hire temps? Add to this, the time and cost of training new/temporary workers- how do you deal with the time lag and the fact that some will just not work out? Those can break a company's reputation and kill any chance of getting repeat business when the problems are bad enough.

Your first paragraph reads like you're blaming businesses for this- have you NOT been paying attention to what business owners have been saying? It's not greed, it's the uncertainty about where things are going that makes a company hold off on hiring, cutting back on wages/benefits/other expenses. Sure, some CEO/CFO/COO wages and compensation packages are exorbitant from where we sit but these aren't handed out without the board knowing about it and being considered "do-able". These, however, are huge corporations and companies, not the smaller/mid-sized ones. Still, incremental overruns can kill any business- a small company that has only a few employees can only do so much business before it's dealing with too much. Not only can the work become too much, the need to buy more inventory, accounts receivables can increase, wages/training can be excessive when overtime is necessary/unplanned (due to some un-forseen event) and then, there's the fact that some customers don't pay on time. Far more businesses are in the position of having to watch their expenses like a hawk than being able to hire more with the intention of making more business for themselves.

It would take a real clairvoyant to be sure of what's coming. Failing that, guessing isn't going to cut it.
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  #35  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
You mentioned military pensions...no way that get's touched - no way no how - we are free because of the brave. The Commander in Chief puts these people in harms way - if that money was spent correctly and at the right rate - we would not need the wounded warriors fund... but that's another discussion.

Unfortunately, my prediction another 5 years of malaise in economic growth - more loss of business - less jobs. IMHO...
It's supposed to be the Commander in Chief AND Congress who puts people in harm's way. Unfortunately, there's not enough transparency or public debate showing exactly what is happening, unless C-Span shows it.
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  #36  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:36 AM
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Just a little something that was going around yesterday

http://i.imgur.com/VVC4r.jpg
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  #37  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Traxx822 View Post
FML These god dam liberals are so insane. How do they get away with it. Seriously. When do we start protesting.
How often do you see Conservatives protesting? It's not the majority who protest, it's a much smaller group.
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  #38  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:41 AM
FrankSchwab FrankSchwab is online now
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Originally Posted by Traxx822 View Post
FML These god dam liberals are so insane. How do they get away with it. Seriously. When do we start protesting.
Why is your anger so pointedly directed at "liberals"? Who do you consider to be "not a liberal" in the political arena today?

There are few "conservatives" when it comes to the public purse in the political arena today. Both major parties have been complicit in passing unfunded benefit improvements for seniors for short-term political gain (remember the unfunded $40 Billion/year prescription drug program for seniors championed and passed by the majority Republicans and signed by GWB? I do.) Even the Tea Partiers, who IMO are intent on tearing apart the nation to "reduce spending" without actually having any fiscal impact, have unlimited military spending in their platform.
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Just for a second, imagine that you own a business. Now, imagine that the economy is in constant flux and there's no way to predict if your revenue/orders will change, remain static or, in some cases, end (based on whatever it is that you sell). If you can't be sure that you'll see more orders, would you hire more people? Of course not! That could mean the failure of your business- you can't sustain high wage burden without increasing revenue. Do you take more orders without increasing your staffing level? Only if your current staffing allows for the increase without quality/delivery time making it a problem. If you have a high-demand product or service and you see a roller coaster of demand, how do you deal with this- layoffs, eat the cost of wages when business is slow or hire temps? Add to this, the time and cost of training new/temporary workers- how do you deal with the time lag and the fact that some will just not work out? Those can break a company's reputation and kill any chance of getting repeat business when the problems are bad enough.

Your first paragraph reads like you're blaming businesses for this- have you NOT been paying attention to what business owners have been saying? It's not greed, it's the uncertainty about where things are going that makes a company hold off on hiring, cutting back on wages/benefits/other expenses. Sure, some CEO/CFO/COO wages and compensation packages are exorbitant from where we sit but these aren't handed out without the board knowing about it and being considered "do-able". These, however, are huge corporations and companies, not the smaller/mid-sized ones. Still, incremental overruns can kill any business- a small company that has only a few employees can only do so much business before it's dealing with too much. Not only can the work become too much, the need to buy more inventory, accounts receivables can increase, wages/training can be excessive when overtime is necessary/unplanned (due to some un-forseen event) and then, there's the fact that some customers don't pay on time. Far more businesses are in the position of having to watch their expenses like a hawk than being able to hire more with the intention of making more business for themselves.

It would take a real clairvoyant to be sure of what's coming. Failing that, guessing isn't going to cut it.
#1 - I have been paying attention.

Sorry if first paragraph reads as if blaming business - not meant to. I was pointing to business as being unable to grow because of uncertainty caused by gov't.

My compensation is based on capital spending at small and medium size businesses... that ain't happening. I know you can't be clairvoyant however in the business planning cycle your inputs drive your tactical execution. i.e. if you know tax burden on wages you can budget your overall labor burden as well as benefits burden. You can plan for a revenue stream if you have the cost inputs. Market pressures can be assessed and production/orders can be modified as you go along. However, if you don't know what's something is going to cost why step forward. I am not against any C Level compensation package as long as it is tied to growth of the the company they are running. Small and medium business owners are really on a 100% commission plan.

Regarding lag - you're absolutely right. Dorks in D.C. are pushing growth out at least 6-9 months.
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
Why is your anger so pointedly directed at "liberals"? Who do you consider to be "not a liberal" in the political arena today?

There are few "conservatives" when it comes to the public purse in the political arena today. Both major parties have been complicit in passing unfunded benefit improvements for seniors for short-term political gain (remember the unfunded $40 Billion/year prescription drug program for seniors championed and passed by the majority Republicans and signed by GWB? I do.) Even the Tea Partiers, who IMO are intent on tearing apart the nation to "reduce spending" without actually having any fiscal impact, have unlimited military spending in their platform.
I am on the same bandwagon as TRAXXX - you usually can't have a good discussion with a liberal - while they are protesting conservatives are at work. But I do agree - both parties have been complicit over the last few decades - both republicans and democrats - most public servants are more concerned about re-election than serving. Hell 174K is a hard nut to replace.
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