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Old 11-10-2012, 11:41 PM
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steve_amestoy steve_amestoy is offline
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Wetsounds XS-10FA

Has anyone swapped out the stock JL free air sub with a Wetsounds XS-10FA? My JL is on its way out so i was going to replace it. Ive got 300 watts to spare and the JL can only handle about 150-175 rms were the wetsounds can handle 300 watts rms. I have a 2006 Star with all the stock interior speakers being pushed with a wetsounds ht6 amp and 4 Rev8's being pushed by a wetsounds syn2.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:52 PM
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The JL Audio sub is rated at 250 watts and JL rates everything conservatively. Plus, you can't hear the difference in 50 watts anyway at that level. Factory amplifier power clips and loses control before the JL sub distorts. Factory doesn't do the little execution things (wire gauge, baffle rigidity, tuning, etc.) that allow the sub to perform up to potential.
Going from one very good 10" infinite baffle sub to another very good 10" infinite baffle sub will produce similar results.
So you have to question whether you really want to go with infinite baffle again. If you like dominant bass, air suspension will deliver longer excursions under control and greater output. In most MCs it's a fairly easy transition to add an enclosed woofer to the same location.
In any case, you'll want to set things up differently from factory.

David
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:19 PM
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I thought the JL sub was rated for 50-150 rms and 300 peak. The xs-10fa is 300 rms and 600 peak according to wetsounds website , so would 150 watts more make a difference?
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:11 PM
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The JL Audio M series 10 is rated at 250 watts RMS. We routinely use 250 to 300 watts on these.
The JL Audio MX series 10 is rated at 175 watts RMS. We routinely run 150 to 200 watts on these.
Peak power isn't given as that is a standard that is hard to qualify.
But don't take the power specs too literally.
If an amplifier is rated at 1 kHz, with a 14.4 volt supply and one channel driven at a time, you will never get close to that power in real world use at 40 Hz, with a 13 volt supply and all channels driven.
In other examples the amplifier may be under-rated enough that it will just barely deliver its full rated power into actual conditions.
Unregulated amplifiers versus regulated amplifiers perform very differently depending on the supply voltage.
So that is why JL Audio may rate their woofer RMS a bit conservative.
I like the JL M series 10 with an 'honest' 250 watts.
The Wetsounds 10 deserves the same level of power.

David
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:29 AM
bsloop bsloop is offline
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Basically what EM is saying from their first response; if you really want more bass - free air SUCKS!
10" is really too small to move much air if you are looking for some booty shakn' sound instead of stock free air bass reinforcement.

Save some pennies over the winter and take time to have a 12" ported enclosure built. The sound difference will be incredible and you will not keep ratting out nice speakers asking them to do more than they are able.
There is little difference between build costs of a 10" or 12" but the 12" will move much more air.
JL is very accurate but this sacrifices big sound many are looking for in an open environment.
Consider a Rockford T-1 or Kicker CompVX or L7 for other big mfg alternatives that will sound out.

I dont know how many stock speakers you have to best advise on amp options.

Last edited by bsloop; 11-12-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:44 PM
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"....very accurate but this sacrifices big sound many are looking for...."
Not an accurate statement at all.
Here is how it really works. Subwoofers from various brands of a similar build (surface area, voice coil size, etc.) will essentially deliver the same overall or total collective output. One may be a more linear speaker (smoother response) with a wider bandwidth. Another design may offer more peak output over a narrower bandwidth. Another may deliver exceptionally deep bass extension but with very little upper bass articulation and sound generally indiscriminant. The first example is balanced but not a compromise. The second two examples focus on more of a singular attribute but are a compromise in other aspects.
I have yet to find a speaker engineer that could cheat physics and I have interviewed dozens over the past decades when considering their products. Intially, many claim to be better at everything without admitting to the trade-offs, but when called on the carpet the truth always came out.
Speakers (woofers in particular) can be much like an enclosure selection. You can go with a peaky, narrower alignment with less bandwidth (less deep bass) or go with an alignment with exceptional extension that sounds musically dead or you can go for a balanced, more musical option.
Some woofer/enclosure combinations 'hit', 'slam', and 'bump' as if every bass instrument is a percussion device. They so badly smear the tonal construction of a bass string instrument that you can't tell one instrument or note from another.
A more accurate woofer does not have to sacrifice output. It's knowing how to set it up.

David
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:17 PM
bsloop bsloop is offline
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EM, you full explaination of audio compromise is very good, true and reinforces not disproves my statement.

JL strives to be an accurate, balanced speaker the discerning ear can appreciate. When effort, thus expense, is expended the result can sound very good AND be reasonably loud.

Cut to what 85% of boaters are looking for - Overcome the myraid of back ground noise from engine roar, wind, general conversation, yelling, attention distraction, another stereo (or 4), the general "alcohol effect", cubic space limitation and possibly budget.
Combine all these and most dont really care to critique the finner points of a bass guitar, bass drum or electronic bass, they simply want to HEAR it.

If kicking back with a few close friends in a quite cove with some fine beverages and Clapton is your thing, then a "linear" speaker is a great choice.
If someone is engaged in a water sport behind a boat or in a loud social environment, listening to most popular music, a speaker that can get loud over an acceptable musical range is a better choice, IMO.
We can both agree the narrow tuned "burp box" and associated speakers would be the choice of a small number of boat owners.

I rarely hear people comment, "Man, things are really missing between 80 and 120hz". They say "whats it take to hear some bass, get the girls to dance and hear my music at speed"
That is where "compromise" brands like Kicker, Rockford, MTX, DC gold, etc offer more what the average consumer is looking for.
Brands like WetSounds, Bullet, Exile have become the dream system for many because they have recognized the limitation of car audio, made calculated sound quality sacrifices to obtain higher levels of other desireable characteristics ON THE WATER.

I also agree for a system to sound its best, too many overlook the finer design and install points that can make a bunch of nice components sound AMAZING.

OP has good base components of WS/Arc amps, JL in boats and WS up top. Any way you slice it, a single 10" free air is not properly balanced. While not afraid of spending money, he is still a little price conscious. He has the WS so volume is a priority.
My recomendation still stands for a good thumping sub and put a little more money into a well designed enclosure. A different amp may be in his future as well but if he only has 4 in-boats the HTC6 can still put down 600w to DVC 4ohm sub and get by if necessary. To maximize his amp $$, a decision should be made at the time of speaker selection since a DVC 2ohm yeliding a 1ohm amp load may give more boom for the buck (assuming the amp can take advantage of a 1ohm load).

Last edited by bsloop; 11-12-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:40 PM
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Sure, but you are creating the misconception that an SQ woofer like the JL Audio and many others won't play loud. That is simply not true. If you want it to play louder simply narrow the bandwidth with the enclosure design and highpass it at 40 Hz....things that are inherent in most SPL woofers anyway.
We are presently doing a MC with dual 13W6s in twin compound-loaded bandpass enclosures and it will absolutely hurt you.
We did two 10W6s in the same configuration and it devasted an SPL 15" in a massive bass-reflex enclosure.
You can do similar things with a W3. It doesn't have to be a W7. And you don't have to follow the recommended well-damped SQ box alignments.
Can I get a little more peak output at 65 Hz from an unsophistcated China woofer with a paper cone and big magnet in a one-note resonator enclosure. Yep. If that is all you want to hear. IMO, the moderate output gain is not worth the monotany.
Once we expose boat owners to the difference they just never go back.
We agree that if the OP really wants high output levels he should go with enclosed-type woofer(s).

David
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