Go Back   TeamTalk > Maintenance Tips, How-tos and Refurbishing Topics > Engine / Drive Train

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-13-2012, 04:45 PM
SugarLake's Avatar
SugarLake SugarLake is offline
TT Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Boat: 88 Prostar 190 351W 1:1
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 38
Carb Problem 351 Holley 4160 Flooding

Getting frustrated and looking for ideas. Boat is an '88 PS 190 with 351 and brand new (last year) Holley 4160. Boat was running fine but I decided to replace the power valve with a 2.5 because I wasn't sure what the new carb came with and I was having some slight bogging and rich smell out of the hole. Pulled the front bowl, switched out the power valve, put it back together and it wouldn't start. Finally figured out it was getting way too much gas and got it to start with choke open and wide open throttle. If I back off the throttle it will stay running for a while (with black smoke) but quickly loads up.

I pulled the front bowl again, blew through the float and it seemed to be shutting off fine. Tried again with same results. Then I pulled both bowls, blew through the inlets with compressed air, checked them both to see that the needles and seat were closing by holding them upside down and blowing through the inlets with my mouth. Seemed to be working fine. Put it back together and still have the issue. I also tried changing back to the original power valve.

What did I do? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-13-2012, 05:18 PM
mcparadise's Avatar
mcparadise mcparadise is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Boat: 1998 Sportstar 19/305 Chevy Indmar (4160 Carbed)
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarLake View Post
Getting frustrated and looking for ideas. Boat is an '88 PS 190 with 351 and brand new (last year) Holley 4160. Boat was running fine but I decided to replace the power valve with a 2.5 because I wasn't sure what the new carb came with and I was having some slight bogging and rich smell out of the hole. Pulled the front bowl, switched out the power valve, put it back together and it wouldn't start. Finally figured out it was getting way too much gas and got it to start with choke open and wide open throttle. If I back off the throttle it will stay running for a while (with black smoke) but quickly loads up.

I pulled the front bowl again, blew through the float and it seemed to be shutting off fine. Tried again with same results. Then I pulled both bowls, blew through the inlets with compressed air, checked them both to see that the needles and seat were closing by holding them upside down and blowing through the inlets with my mouth. Seemed to be working fine. Put it back together and still have the issue. I also tried changing back to the original power valve.

What did I do? Doesn't make any sense to me.
For what it my be worth, I had a "similar" problem in my 98 regular-carbed SS19 with Indmar 305that kicked my mechanic's butt. Nothing worked. Holly 4160 650 cfm was fine and almost new....end of story is the Carter fuel pump (high volume low pressure) was putting out way too much pressure and flooding her out. At that time I had no pressure gage, no longer though !, so it was hard to disgnose. I went with the marine Holly instead which mounts with terminals on top not on bottom (poor Carter design in my book considering they are "press fit" with a screwy wire retainer).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-13-2012, 11:52 PM
SugarLake's Avatar
SugarLake SugarLake is offline
TT Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Boat: 88 Prostar 190 351W 1:1
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 38
Thanks, I think a fuel pump is worth a shot. Mine is original so it wouldn't hurt to replace it at any rate. I've had the bowls off about 5 times now. Took out the floats and needle and seat, can't see anything wrong. No fuel coming out of the J tubes either. It really has me stumped.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2012, 12:43 AM
SeaCup's Avatar
SeaCup SeaCup is offline
TT Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Boat: 1992 MC Prostar 190
Location: East Tennessee (Knoxville)
Posts: 70
Since the boat was running fine before you changed the power valve I would double check the valve. The valve might be defective or leaking around the gasket because it was not tightened properly. Use a little petroleum jelly and hold it upside down when you tighten it to make sure the gasket stays centered.

Super easy to test the valve, screw in both your idle air screws (count how many turns so you can put them back where they were) and if the engine starts to stumble and die the valve is good. If it keeps running the valve is bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2012, 09:10 PM
SugarLake's Avatar
SugarLake SugarLake is offline
TT Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Boat: 88 Prostar 190 351W 1:1
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 38
It was the metering block gasket. When I pulled it off the first time it tore a little so I replaced with one I had got before and never used. Apparently there are 2 different ones for the 4160 and I used the wrong one. I got a kit at the MC dealer today and it came with 2 different ones.

BUT with all my screwing around trying to figure it out I think I messed a few things up. The boat is running great, but I have the mixture screws all the way in. If I turn them out the RPM's go down. Maybe the float is too high? Any ideas appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:32 PM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
MC Maniac
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Boat: MasterCraft
Location: Kingston,TN USA
Posts: 4,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarLake View Post
It was the metering block gasket. When I pulled it off the first time it tore a little so I replaced with one I had got before and never used. Apparently there are 2 different ones for the 4160 and I used the wrong one. I got a kit at the MC dealer today and it came with 2 different ones.

BUT with all my screwing around trying to figure it out I think I messed a few things up. The boat is running great, but I have the mixture screws all the way in. If I turn them out the RPM's go down. Maybe the float is too high? Any ideas appreciated.
Begin with them all the way in, turning each one out approx. 1 - 1-1/2 turn. That should get you very close. If that isn't feasible, you have another issue. Patience. The 4160s are cantankerous but once you learn the characteristics, they work just fine (for the most part).

Make sure the electric choke is adjusted properly. Typically, mid-range on the scale will get it very close. Powervalve can also trick you, so just make sure it's seated properly and is in good working condition.

Have a double-check look-see here ==> http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...l/199R8339.pdf

.
__________________
93 190
.
Don't be a boot licker
.

Hose picture (internal) http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...68&postcount=8



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrall View Post
..Some of you give a whole new meaning to the phrase "another @sshole with a Mastercraft."

RE: Thrall, Welcome to the club....
NEW SKINS in TN... Leading Edge Marine Interior

feedback on a TN company: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=58767

.

Last edited by Cloaked; 07-14-2012 at 10:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:24 AM
SugarLake's Avatar
SugarLake SugarLake is offline
TT Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Boat: 88 Prostar 190 351W 1:1
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloaked View Post
Begin with them all the way in, turning each one out approx. 1 - 1-1/2 turn. That should get you very close. If that isn't feasible, you have another issue. Patience. The 4160s are cantankerous but once you learn the characteristics, they work just fine (for the most part).

Make sure the electric choke is adjusted properly. Typically, mid-range on the scale will get it very close. Powervalve can also trick you, so just make sure it's seated properly and is in good working condition.

Have a double-check look-see here ==> http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...l/199R8339.pdf

.
Yeah, I know the drill with the mixture screws. I started with them out 1 1/4. Turning them out made it worse, so I tried turning them in and it smoothed out and was best when they were in all the way. I know that shouldn't be the case but the boat is actually running pretty good. The idle circuit must be getting too much fuel but I don't know why. My only theory at this point is the fuel level in the bowl is too high, but I'm not sure about that.

Thanks for the link. Those are the same instructions I have that came with the kit. The frustrating thing about them is in the section were they instruct you on the level for the non-externally adjustable float, they show you where to measure it but nowhere in the instructions do they tell you what the measurement should be!! On the skidim site they reccomend setting them level ( parrallel) but that is way too high. I found I had to set the secondary float way down from that or else I had gas pouring out of the venturis. If anyone knows the measurement for the MARINE 4160 float level that would really help. I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-15-2012, 07:21 AM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
MC Maniac
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Boat: MasterCraft
Location: Kingston,TN USA
Posts: 4,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarLake View Post
Yeah, I know the drill with the mixture screws. I started with them out 1 1/4. Turning them out made it worse, so I tried turning them in and it smoothed out and was best when they were in all the way. I know that shouldn't be the case but the boat is actually running pretty good. The idle circuit must be getting too much fuel but I don't know why. My only theory at this point is the fuel level in the bowl is too high, but I'm not sure about that.

Thanks for the link. Those are the same instructions I have that came with the kit. The frustrating thing about them is in the section were they instruct you on the level for the non-externally adjustable float, they show you where to measure it but nowhere in the instructions do they tell you what the measurement should be!! On the skidim site they reccomend setting them level ( parrallel) but that is way too high. I found I had to set the secondary float way down from that or else I had gas pouring out of the venturis. If anyone knows the measurement for the MARINE 4160 float level that would really help. I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Here's another link for some ideas that may ring a bell for you.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum...float-settings

.
__________________
93 190
.
Don't be a boot licker
.

Hose picture (internal) http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...68&postcount=8



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrall View Post
..Some of you give a whole new meaning to the phrase "another @sshole with a Mastercraft."

RE: Thrall, Welcome to the club....
NEW SKINS in TN... Leading Edge Marine Interior

feedback on a TN company: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=58767

.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2012, 03:17 PM
thatsmrmastercraft's Avatar
thatsmrmastercraft thatsmrmastercraft is online now
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Boat: 1977 Stars & Stripes
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 14,824
The relationship between mixture screws and idle speed screw needs to be proper. If the mixture screws are in too far, you can make the carb idle on the main metering circuit - though not very nicely. As Cloaked said, start with the idle mixture screws 1 1/2 turns out and get you idle speed set properly.

If the diaphragm on your power valve (and it should be 2.5) is ruptured, it will run full rich and give you black smoke coming out the exhaust. The only true way to test it is to remove it and hold the outer diameter of it while trying to gently twist the pointy end. If it turns freely it is bad. By turning your mixture screws in all the way, the engine can still run if there is a significant base gasket leak.
__________________
Peter

Tandem Axle Wheel & Tire Package $659
4 S5 or S5 Black 14x5.5 wheels, 4 ST205/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires

Single Axle Wheel & Tire Package $399
2 S5 or S5 Black 14x5.5 wheels, 2 ST205/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires
MOUNT, BALANCE & FREE SHIPPING INCLUDED IN BOTH PACKAGES



CARB REBUILDING - FAST TURN-AROUND - $100 +PARTS
LED lights, Hubs, Spare Tire Carriers, Chrome & Powder Coated Lug Nuts - Red, Blue & Black


PM or email me tiresplease@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:25 AM
pkskier's Avatar
pkskier pkskier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Boat: 1987 & 1989 TriStar 190
Location: Possum Kingdom Lake Texas
Posts: 476
If the power valve gasket is not properly set it will allow fuel to leak by and the engine will idle with the mixture screws all the way in. Check the power valve gasket.
__________________
1987 & 1989 TriStar 190 Red & White
Ski Yesterday, Ski Today, Ski Tomorrow
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:33 AM.