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  #21  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:05 PM
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rgardjr1 rgardjr1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgorczak1 View Post
That would not cause the chattering. When I spoke with the folks at UFP the only things that cause that noise is a bad shock absorber, air in the lines, or a bad master cylinder...in my case the shock was bad.
There are some old threads around here that talk about this problem when towing the trailer empty and adding the smaller orifice to correct this. I don't think I'm going to waste anymore time trying to track this part down. I only use my trailer twice a year and I only have to drive a total of 20 miles to do this. I'll put everything back together without this piece and see if I have this problem. If I do I'll have all summer to play around with an empty trailer.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mgorczak1 View Post
I would contact dennis at UFP...

http://www.ufpnet.com/ContactUs/tabid/60/Default.aspx

dennis is the TN location.
I received and email from Dennis today about whether or not I needed to keep the fitting inline. His response:
"Rick, It should not be a problem to use the fitting if needed. The UFP solenoid has one built into it so, your decision whether or not to leave it in.
Dennis"
So it sounds like the UFP solenoid eliminates the need for this fitting. I'll let everyone know what I experience after I get the new actuator installed and brakes working again.
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:25 PM
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I am not so sure that air in the lines is going to cause this issue.

Air in the lines is bad because air is compressible. If you have air in the lines, the air compresses instead of transferring the master cylinder pressure via fluid to the brakes. That means that as your trailer slides forward, the pressure in the master cylinder is compressing the air instead of moving brake fluid to the brakes, thus no brakes. I would not be looking at air in the system to cause this issue.

It sounds to me like the brakes are over adjusted or grabbing. If you are driving down the road and apply the vehicle brakes, the vehicle slows down, the boat slides forward and applies pressure to the master cylinder. The master cylinder applies pressure to the trailer brakes and the trailer begins to slow down. If the brakes are providing too much stopping force, the trailer will slow more than the vehicle and the brakes will stop applying. Keep in mind, the vehicle is still slowing down this entire time. The boat is now going to catch back up with the slowing vehicle and the brakes will apply again. When this happens, the brakes will apply too much (again) and the trailer will slow down way to much (again) and thus stop applying. I think this is a situation that can explain your problem better of hammering or whatever you want to call it.

I would look for reasons the brakes are applied too hard.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:18 AM
kgrove kgrove is offline
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That was exactly my thought - brakes grabbing too tight. I suggested that to the shop, but they said there weren't adjustments to calibrate how hard the brakes grab. The brakes keep grabbing harder until the momentum of the boat stops compressing the master cylinder even further and the shock is supposed to slow down how fast this happens. If the dampening mechanism isn't working correctly you get what you're describing - trailer slams actuator, brakes grab too hard slowing trailer more tha truck, brakes release and process starts all over again.

I'm really at a loss. I've had both the master and the shock replaced and the problem is less severe, but still there. The mechanics are now suggesting replacing the calipers, but this would cost somewhere around $1,000. I hate this idea since we don't even know there is anything wrong with them, they just want to replace them because they've replaced everything else and are out of ideas. I think I'd start over and replace the whole actuator mechanism even though I just replaced the main parts before I did that.

Ideas? Suggestions?
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrove View Post
Ideas? Suggestions?
The UFP actuator comes apart very easily with a pair of snap ring pliers. I would take the actuator apart and look at the shock. Put it in a vise and see if it's working in both directions. Sounds like the master cylinder is working since the brakes are grabbing. There is also a spring on the master cylinder that will affect how quickly pressure can be applied on the brakes. The UFP actuators are pretty inexpensive (~$150) relative to the $1000 to replace the rotors and calipers. The new one will basically drop in and all you'll have to do is bleed the brakes. I'm still a few days away from messing around with my retro fit project to replace my shot Reliable actuator, but when I tore into the Reliable actuator I had problems with both the master cylinder and the shock. In my case I think the master cylinder failed and then when I towed the boat with out brakes the shock got over worked and failed. Good luck!
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:12 PM
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I am not convinced either way but may I point out that a very small amount of air would compress when the tow vehicle slowed and the master cylinder applies pressure, brakes would be applied then the small pocket of compressed air can bounce off and on the hydraulic pressure needed to apply the wheel cylinders. Agreed a large amount of air would mean little or drastically reduced braking.
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  #27  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:24 PM
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I dont think there is an adjustment on the calipers either. I think that only applied to the old drum brakes. I dont know why the calipers would cause grabbing. If you have a bad seal it leaks. If the piston is rusted in the bore, it will not move. If it were a case of the calipers not releasing, that could be resolved by new calipers or a rebuild. I really cant think of a reason why you would replace the calipers. I would be looking at the apply system. The master cylinder and the shock.
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  #28  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakethebt View Post
I dont think there is an adjustment on the calipers either. I think that only applied to the old drum brakes. I dont know why the calipers would cause grabbing. If you have a bad seal it leaks. If the piston is rusted in the bore, it will not move. If it were a case of the calipers not releasing, that could be resolved by new calipers or a rebuild. I really cant think of a reason why you would replace the calipers. I would be looking at the apply system. The master cylinder and the shock.
I've had to replace several calipers on MC trailers. They get stuck and don't release. Rotor, wheel and tire get really hot!
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  #29  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgardjr1 View Post
The UFP actuator comes apart very easily with a pair of snap ring pliers. I would take the actuator apart and look at the shock. Put it in a vise and see if it's working in both directions. Sounds like the master cylinder is working since the brakes are grabbing. There is also a spring on the master cylinder that will affect how quickly pressure can be applied on the brakes. The UFP actuators are pretty inexpensive (~$150) relative to the $1000 to replace the rotors and calipers. The new one will basically drop in and all you'll have to do is bleed the brakes. I'm still a few days away from messing around with my retro fit project to replace my shot Reliable actuator, but when I tore into the Reliable actuator I had problems with both the master cylinder and the shock. In my case I think the master cylinder failed and then when I towed the boat with out brakes the shock got over worked and failed. Good luck!
You don't need brakes You don't have to tow too far I recently towed a 2005 Super Air without trailer brakes. Probably only weighs 4,300lbs with the trailer. The trailer has brakes, but they are drum and they don't work. It is a P.O.S. trailer. Tundra did pretty well, except when I had to stop quickly at a red light. The boat was really pushing against the truck. I could smell hot brakes. Makes me wonder about those Tundra commercials?
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  #30  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sand2snow22 View Post
I've had to replace several calipers on MC trailers. They get stuck and don't release. Rotor, wheel and tire get really hot!
I have heard that the calipers do stick and need replacing, but I dont think that is the root cause of machine gunning. If the trailer we were talking about had drum brakes, I would say they need adjusting. I dont think the old drum brake were self adjusting, so in other words you had to adjust them. The procedure was adjust until the shoes make contact and then back off 5 clicks. If you did not back off and then used the trailer, I bet you would get very grabby brakes or machine gunning. I have never tried, just a guess.
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