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Old 01-22-2012, 09:01 PM
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Nutter281 Nutter281 is offline
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Pro60 HLCDs in 6.5" Clarion Cans?

Just wanted to be the guys to start the 1000th thread on audio upgrades this season! This forum is fantastic - I love reading the creative input from every angle. I'm looking to upgrade the sound system in my 2003 X2 during these long, bitter cold, central Texas winter days .

With so many threads sporting different options and techniques people employ to achieve different levels of purpose with their sound, it is sometimes difficult to step back and refocus on which solution actually presents the most value for an individual situation. I have the stock clarion system that includes:

- Clarion head Unit + Remote Driver seat control
- 4 X Clarion 6.5" cockpit speakers + tweeters
- 2 X Clarion 6.5" tower speakers + tweeters
- 1 X Clarion APX 200.2 amplifier driving the tower speakers

I pulled the tower speakers off yesterday to clean the cans and was surprised to find out the clarions had both dried out and crack along the white woofer? portion. Needless to say, I'll be replacing those. Sidenote, this being the first time I have ever deep-cleaned those tower cans, I must say, I am quite impress with the chrome job Mastercraft did - little never-dull and those babies are like mirrors now.

My goal is to have 'good' not 'award winning' sound inside the boat and be able to hear music while wakeboarding. There seems to be no debate, if you want to hear music at 60'+, you've got to have HLCDs. I'm having a real hard time justifying $1000+ for the Wetsounds Pro80's that seem to be the best all around answer for sound at a distance.

I was at the Austin Boat Show today and one of the sound vendors I was talking with told me that he had a pair of Pro60 HLCD speakers without the cans that he could sell me.

My question is this: has anyone ever tried putting the pro60 HLCDs in the clarion cans (I believe it will require slight modification) and is it even worth my money? Aside from can installation, has anyone ever ran just pro60s and can they project to the wakeboarding distance, or, again, am I wasting my time trying to project sound at that distance using a 6.5" enclosure? I'll be honest, I kind of fell back in love with those stock mastercraft chrome 6.5" cans from a 'cosmetic' perspective; that combined with an overall unwillingness to part with so much money for speakers has got me searching for alternative paths to a similar end.

I've also read mixed reviews on the Krypt Audio 6.5" HLCDs - some say they are money well spent and other sites claim they are pretty much garbage at anything less than 10 feet distance.

Thanks,
Austin
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:14 PM
Jeff d Jeff d is offline
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If they fit in the cans the highs from the HLCD horn should sound every bit as good as when you buy them in the Wetsounds cans. The mid bass is the area that can suffer if the enclosure is too small but based on looking at the pics of the Pro 60 cans I'd bet your MasterCraft OEM cans are at least the same volume but probably even a bit bigger.

So my logic tells me they'd sound just as good but I have no experience with either the Pro 60s or swapping other speakers into the MC cans.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:49 AM
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If you want a drop-in for the factory 6.5" pods with a 5" opening that will run off your existing amplifier power then you can go with the Wetsounds XS-650 coaxials. Its the best option available from conventional coaxials. But it won't project like an HLCD.
Even though conventional coaxials and the smaller HLCDs are both classified as a 6.5", the basket size is radically different. You would need to expand the opening by around 5/8" and that's no easy job on those pods if you could do it at all. Plus the grill O.D. would overlap the pod O.D.
Also, unlike the current MC pods, the 03 models would be too small of a displacement for the Pro60s midbass.
So for a tower HLCD upgrade I would have to recommend the Wetsounds Pro80s, REV8s or REV10s. The balance between the normally dominant compression horns and the larger midbass drivers will yield a far warmer sound. The SQ on the REV series is amazing among HLCDs.

David
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:04 PM
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The pro 60's will no fit in you can....the 60's while. 6.5 have much more surface area in their pods.

Bullet as well as krypt audio make direct drop in HLCD's for the older cans. Both sound every bit as good as the 60's with the right power. I would suggest at least150rms to each but 200rms sounds great.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:08 PM
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Bullet HollowPoint has discontinued all 6.5" HLCD products a long time ago. Their new NEO7.7" HLCD is a drop-in for the newer MC pods.
Wetsounds will be doing the same in the future with all 6.5" HLCD product as they already have an 8" HLCD in the Pro60 size pod.
The Krypt has the same 5 13/16" basket size as the Pro60 so the challenge will be identical in those pods.
You could get a major arguement that the Krypt speaker resembles the sound of the Wetsounds Pro60 in any respect.

David
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
So for a tower HLCD upgrade I would have to recommend the Wetsounds Pro80s, REV8s or REV10s. The balance between the normally dominant compression horns and the larger midbass drivers will yield a far warmer sound. The SQ on the REV series is amazing among HLCDs.

David
Earmark Marine
Thanks for the responses guys!

David - do you happen to have the dimensions for the pro60 driver? I just want to rest assured of the difference between 'difficult' and 'impossible' to squeeze into the 6.5" OEM MC can. I have $15k 3-axis CNC vertical mill purchased for our lab that has been horribly underutilized. If it is a matter of pulling the mounting ring off and removing some material that is quite simple; if the body of the can itself is too narrow this may be a no-go.

Slightly different direction - I've been deep diving into forums on this subject for the last few days - spending hours going from post to post on MC Team talk, the wake world forums, and even the moomba, Tige, and centurion forums. I say this with all due respect, but I've seen you make the comment above to just about everyone on every forum I've been to countless times LOL. You are easily the most intelligent individual participating in most of these discussions with an excellent ability to articulate the appropriate scientific principles behind the audio advice that you present in, what seems, a very unbiased manner. That said, I've never seen you take a strong position towards a 'value oriented' solution. I know Earmark sells Pro60s and XM7s, but from every forum I read, from your contributions, I'm just not sure why. You never advocate its use over the pro80, though there is significant cost delta. It seems the Pro80 is enough speaker to satisfy the enthusiast who wants to project sound at 200' and coaxials are barely adequate to push sound 10' if it's already rolling down hill so isn't there something in between? I apologize if any of this sounded offensive, but I do have a hard time getting a good judgement about your objectives. Understanding that there exist bigger, better solutions (being the 8" and 10" HLCD options) that also cost more, do you really feel that the pro60s are an insufficient waste of money?

Thanks,
Austin
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:25 AM
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I always thought the Pro 60's were a bit bigger in size so to speak than the Bullets and Krypts due to their pod structure. I had a pair of 6.5 MB Quarts in the DIY Wake cans and the Krypts dropped right in with no modding at all. Same was found on a ton of other older cans. Figured that was the standard size can way back when. These are my cans and the dimensions http://www.diywake.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=571

I apologize for the mis info. At the minimal I thought all you needed to do was possibly shav a bit off the lip for the basket to clear the basket depending in which exact cans you have which is simple with a dremel. I will try and find a pic of the Krypts I dropped in my cans. They didn't overlap the edges of the can at all and looked fantastic. I attached a pic of the MB quarts that were originally in them.

I have gone the "Value" route upgrading over the years to now owning a pair of Rev 8's. Owning my first set of standard 6.5 speakers way back when towers just started coming in to their own. I have gone the cheap route in almost every aspect as I am not a huge stereo pumping guru. I can tell you owning regular car audio 6.5 speakers first, then going to an MB Quart 6.5 , then going to the Krypt 6.5 HLCD(almost direct copy of Pro 60 only made in china), then going to a pair of Pro 80's(their were stolen) and then replaced to Rev 8's there really is no midline in sound quality. The pro 60's will get the music heard at 80ft but it will just capture mainly the highs with no midbass at all. The difference between a 6.5 HLCD and a simple 6.5 coax at the end of 80ft is tremendous and if you are looking for sound at the end of the rope the Pro 60's are the minimum. The Pro 80's give you a bit more mid punch and a lot louder volume at 80ft, and the Rev 8's have the best all around mid bass punch and smooth sound near the boat or at 80ft. It's the best of both worlds. And for the small price difference between the Pro 80's its a no brainer for most. The Krypt 6.5 HLCD's/ 60's will easily let you hear tunes at the end of the rope. I ran them for at least 2 solid seasons. However you wont be able to hear the true sound of every song. Its mainly all treble. The Pro 80's will give you a much louder sound at 80ft and ake you feel like you in the boat when cranked properly. However the disadvantage they have to say the new Rev 8 is that near the boat when lounging and when cranked they are very sharp with the sound coming from the horn and the highs can make your ear a llittle annoyed, again not so much a big deal at 80ft, but near the boat in a party cove experience or sand bar one will appreciate the Rev 8's that much more. To me if you are just concerned with sound at the 80ft mark and don't sandbar/partycove it with the stereo, the advantages of the REV 8 are not that noticeable. Just my personal opinion not tuning stereos for s living. However close in when I cranked on the REv 8's at my one a year party cove weekend I really appreciated my REV 8's

It kind of depends on what you are looking for in sound. The best value stuff I have found in tower speakers are people's old ones who upgrade for the latest and greatest. I think there are going to be a lot on the market come spring due to the REV 8 reviews and people uping to REV 8's and Rev10's not to mention a revamp to their 485. If that happens there will be deals everywhere I would think on older gear. There just really is no sound gap at a pricepoint between upping to an HLCD and a standard 6.5coax for riding at 80ft. A decent pricepoint set of HLCD's that get great reviews are the Kicker KMT60's. However I cant give you a true review as I have never heard them, bt I am sure you came across them in your seaches for pricepoint stuff

You are kind of stuck with a price tag if you want good sounding tunes at 80ft. I tried for years to disprove that point trying value stuff and slowly upgrading, but in the end had I just went HLCD from the beginning I would have saved cash on upgrading all the time, it would have costed less in the long run........ Trust me I said I would never need to upgrade each time, but once you get a little taste of tunes at 80ft on a regular basis you will want the sound to be good
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Last edited by swatguy; 01-24-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:30 AM
zamboniman zamboniman is online now
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Swat,

You mention your Pro's got stolen. Does your boat stay in the water or is it trailered? This also a concern in the back of my head. Do something too nice and some a hole will come along and take/ruin your stuff. Was one reason was thinking of just going low profile and swapping something cheap into the existing cans. So they didn't scream..... Look at my wetsounds...come take me.

My boat is in the water, and I don't want any night stalkers messing with it.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:16 PM
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swatguy swatguy is offline
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Well it was semi my fault for parking my boat where I did. I haven never in 20 years had anything stolen from my boat. I was leaving real early in the am and left the boat hooked up to my truck overnight in a public launch parking lot. Something I have never done. And u know what it got hit. The toolkit everything except the head unit. As well as 2 cushions. I had a pretty good idea of who it was as I had these guys asking me a tom of stuff about my system on the water. They were in a beat up 03ish x star. In the end the cops tracked them down and got me some stuff back.

The new Trevor 8's have a simple quick disconnect if you get their swivel clamp. No more worries. One incident in that long is pretty good. From what I read on the boards its really only a problem for guys who keep their boats outside in their driveways at night. Seems thrives love them. However I now know that you can let keyed bolts to prevent it next time to go in the older 80's or now get the TC2 quick release swivel clamp. So my fears are gone with the Rev 8's as I just unclip them.
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