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Old 08-24-2011, 10:25 PM
pjm14945 pjm14945 is offline
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Ballast Relay bad in 2007 X2

I replaced the stock relays back in 2008 to get the 20 min timers. I have the Fly High sacs installed. The relays are great to fill but a pain trying to get both hard and soft tanks to empty. If the relays detect air, they will think you hit empty.

Anyway, I now have a relay that has gone bad. The starboard pump would fill but not empty. I removed the impeller and stil the pump would not run on empty. I could not hear the relay "click" on empty. I went ahead and switched 2 relays and found that the pump worked fine with another relay.

So, I need to get a new relay. Does anyone have suggestions about getting a relay that will empty well with the hard/soft sac systems? I don't want to buy the same old 20 min timer from the dealer and have the same hassles with the empty cycle.

-Pete
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:30 PM
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Strange behavior for sure.

The relay doesn't control how the system empties. It just provides electricity to the pump. Are you talking about some after market timer?
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:32 PM
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WESSTAR WESSTAR is offline
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I don't have an answer for the relays but I have a fly high in our 06 Star and I always put the switches to fill when I change the valve to the fly high bags for a few seconds. Gets all the air out of the system.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:25 AM
pjm14945 pjm14945 is offline
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The relay acts like a switch to supply power to the pump. Since there is only 2 wires to the pump, I assume that the voltage flips to put the pump into either fill or empty direction. The relay I'm having problems with can only fill and does not empty. I've tried the relay on 2 different pumps. By switching the relays, I've confirmed that the pumps and switches are fine.

You can actualy hear the relays "click" when you toggle to fill, off, empty. The bad relay is not "clicking" when moving to empty. And that is the same problem when I move the bad relay to a different switch/pump. i.e. I moved stardboard relay to the port switch/pump. Then the stardboard is fine and port can only fill.

I know I need a new relay. The question is, can I get a better relay than the stock 20 min relays? Or do I put in 06 relays that don't have the "feature" of setting ground zero whenever air is detected when you finish emptying 1 of the 2 sacs on that pump?

Has anyone found a better relay for the 07/08 X2/Xstars?

-Pete
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm14945 View Post
The relay acts like a switch to supply power to the pump. Since there is only 2 wires to the pump, I assume that the voltage flips to put the pump into either fill or empty direction. The relay I'm having problems with can only fill and does not empty. I've tried the relay on 2 different pumps. By switching the relays, I've confirmed that the pumps and switches are fine.

You can actualy hear the relays "click" when you toggle to fill, off, empty. The bad relay is not "clicking" when moving to empty. And that is the same problem when I move the bad relay to a different switch/pump. i.e. I moved stardboard relay to the port switch/pump. Then the stardboard is fine and port can only fill.

I know I need a new relay. The question is, can I get a better relay than the stock 20 min relays? Or do I put in 06 relays that don't have the "feature" of setting ground zero whenever air is detected when you finish emptying 1 of the 2 sacs on that pump?

Has anyone found a better relay for the 07/08 X2/Xstars?

-Pete
Hey Pete,

Can you post a photo of the relay in question? If there are any numbers on it that would be helpful too.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:48 AM
Jeff d Jeff d is offline
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Those aren't just simple relays. They are timers and relays combined with some logic circuits that monitor the current draw of the pumps and make assumptions about what's going on based on the draw. See attached.

I'm about to tear into my friend's X2 and replace the timer modules with simple relays. The Ballast Puppy pumps have built in run dry protection that we will rely on to protect the impellers. He's been having a lot of problems ever since he went to additional sacs. He installed the 20 minute timers but still has issues where the timers decide that a certain pump shouldn't be run for whatever reason.


I've been studying a writeup by another member on here but I think I can do it with 2 automotive relays per pump instead of the 3 he used here:
http://www.lockituponline.com/ballast-control-box/

See the attached diagram for what I think will work instead of 3 relays.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:58 AM
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I see. I was not familur with how the newer 07+ systems were done.

If you are going to build a new system from the ground up I have a thread on wiring the relays and switches from my 06 that might be useful to both of you.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=40934
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:43 PM
pjm14945 pjm14945 is offline
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The 20 min relay/timers in my 2007 X2 are marked with : Active Intelligence Version 1.1 Model: 18500 - 0520

The pumps are Jabsco of course.

I would love to have the run dry protection. That is great to save your impellers.

I'll look into the links you provided. Let me know of any more information you have for the better relay/timers. I also have a call into the best MC dealer guy we have in central NC. I should have more information from him early next week.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:56 PM
Jeff d Jeff d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm14945 View Post
I would love to have the run dry protection.
This is a default feature of the Ballast Puppy pumps themselves even without the timers. The pump detects the additional drag of the impeller by the amount of current it's drawing and shut itself. The main purpose of the timer/AI is reportedly to satisfy lawyers (The ironic thing is the friend who wants them removed is a lawyer). Without the timer if you had a leak in the ballast system AND left the pump to fill and forgot about it you could sink the boat. Great idea just a finicky execution in some instances.
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:09 PM
pjm14945 pjm14945 is offline
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Thanks for the info Jeff D. I didn't really want to replace the Jabsco pumps with Ballast Puppy. If I re-wired with the automotive relays, then I'd lose the run dry protection for the pumps. That's replacing one problem with another. I'll have to think about that one. I assume this would be similar to the '06 design that is either fill or empty until you set switch to off.

What is the part number for the automotive relays? Also, any chance that 3 relay setup has two relays on the empty line where one of the relay detects the low voltage draw when the pump sucks air and then turns off? That would make sense and would warrant the third relay.
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