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Old 08-24-2013, 11:57 AM
88inNH 88inNH is offline
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Boat: 1988 ProStar 190
Location: Northeast
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Drip behind Raw Water Pump

1988 Prostar 190
Ford 351
Conventional ignition / points (needs a tuneup)

Engine will occasionally "cut out" while driving (goes dead electrically as if I had turned off the key). Assumed grounding problem of some sort but figured I'd check my "marginal" battery and alternator before pulling the dash apart, etc.

Opened engine cover / hood with engine running and noticed a fine mist. Turns out water is dripping from the shaft behind the Raw Water Pump. The water drips right onto the pulley / fanbelt behind/below it and gets sprayed onto the front of the engine / alternator / fan belt, etc. Thinking back, I may have heard fan belt slipping in an engine "cut out" episode.

I likely have multiple problems going on here. But is seems like eliminating water spraying on the belt / alternator might be a good starting point.

Question #1 - Any ideas on the drip on the shaft behind the raw water pump? To be more accurate, there are slots in the casting of the raw water pump where you can see the shiney shaft spinning. The water is dripping out there (so I guess technically the leak is in the pump. It's just not up front where the impeller is. Is this a seal / gasket or failed pump? DIY?

Question #2 - What are the chances that the spray and slipping belt is causing the electrical problem?

Question #3 - If not, any hints on tracking down the electrical? My plan is to just disconnect / clean / reconnect everything I can get at (behind dash, battery, alternator, starter / solenoids). Anyone ever put together a list of what to check and what order? I've got a DVM - is it worth taking readings or just better to clean everything?

Question #4 - The boat runs ok otherwise (other than needing a tuneup). Temperature fine, etc. Voltage at battery is ~12.45, jumps to ~13.45 when running (volt gauge in dash reads about 1.5 volts lower). Is it bad to run it like this with the occasional cut out?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2013, 12:35 PM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
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Location: Kingston,TN USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88inNH View Post
1988 Prostar 190
Ford 351
Conventional ignition / points (needs a tuneup)
Needs electronic ignition or a conversion kit.

Engine will occasionally "cut out" while driving (goes dead electrically as if I had turned off the key). Assumed grounding problem of some sort but figured I'd check my "marginal" battery and alternator before pulling the dash apart, etc.
Marginal means a new battery for me. Not much worse than being stuck on the lake because of a weak battery. I also put in a new 105 amp alternator today as well. Replaced original equipment for preventative maintenance. Found one on line that was exactly what I needed at the right price. (US-$87, tax in TN and shipping included). It is the same alternator that several here have posted about with satisfaction. Expect a slight variation in mounting configuration but nothing that can't be resolved with a short piece of pipe as a spacer. Mine bolted right up requiring nothing.

Opened engine cover / hood with engine running and noticed a fine mist. Turns out water is dripping from the shaft behind the Raw Water Pump. The water drips right onto the pulley / fanbelt behind/below it and gets sprayed onto the front of the engine / alternator / fan belt, etc. Thinking back, I may have heard fan belt slipping in an engine "cut out" episode.
One of two things (or both): Leaking shaft seal (access from the front cover) or a bad bearing (accessible from the rear of the pump when if comes off). I just replaced my raw water pump today because of a badly deteriorated bearing, discovered the same way you did. The front bearing was shot and the rear bearing was dry as a bone (enclosed face bearings). These were OEM and with further inspection of the shaft (some slight scoring) and the worth of my time, I replaced with a new raw water pump assembly. Found one on line (identical to OEM) for ~US-$185 turn-key install. New seal/ impeller/ bearings alone are right at US-$110. Well worth it to me for an easy install with a new one.

I likely have multiple problems going on here. But is seems like eliminating water spraying on the belt / alternator might be a good starting point.

Question #1 - Any ideas on the drip on the shaft behind the raw water pump? To be more accurate, there are slots in the casting of the raw water pump where you can see the shiney shaft spinning. The water is dripping out there (so I guess technically the leak is in the pump. It's just not up front where the impeller is. Is this a seal / gasket or failed pump? DIY?
Read above. I'd almost guarantee the problem and the remedy. Mine was a failed bearing (worn out after 20 years). My seal was leaking from the bearing impact, impeller was good, etc. You will have a variation of the pump I used. I think you may use the Sherwood pump on the PCM engine. They are all the same principle for functionality.

Question #2 - What are the chances that the spray and slipping belt is causing the electrical problem?
Slim to none IMHO, but one never knows

Question #3 - If not, any hints on tracking down the electrical? My plan is to just disconnect / clean / reconnect everything I can get at (behind dash, battery, alternator, starter / solenoids). Anyone ever put together a list of what to check and what order? I've got a DVM - is it worth taking readings or just better to clean everything?
You're on the right track for sure. Clean connections are always a good thing. As you know, the volt meter will answer all questions within its intended purpose. I'd give everything a good cleaning and test it from there. A slight skip could be several things to consider.

Question #4 - The boat runs ok otherwise (other than needing a tuneup). Temperature fine, etc. Voltage at battery is ~12.45, jumps to ~13.45 when running (volt gauge in dash reads about 1.5 volts lower). Is it bad to run it like this with the occasional cut out?
I doubt it will kill the boat per se. But sooner than later, the issue(s) will catch up to you.

Thanks
Read above. Hope this helps you a bit. I am not sure if this passes as an acceptable and helpful post but it's a start. Maybe the paying members and critics of the forum will approve.

.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrall View Post
..Some of you give a whole new meaning to the phrase "another @sshole with a Mastercraft."

RE: Thrall, Welcome to the club....
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Last edited by Cloaked; 08-24-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2013, 02:23 PM
88inNH 88inNH is offline
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Boat: 1988 ProStar 190
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@Cloaked
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll attack as two separate issues: pump and ground.

My pump says Johnson Pump F6B-9.
Agree - $185 vs $110 seems a no-brainer.
Where did you get yours (PM me if it's inappropriate to post sources).
Does pump just slide off after unbolt (3 allen bolts on pulley behind it, bracket) or is some sort of "puller" involved?


Out of curiosity: Anybody ever rebuild a F6B-9? Does it takes more than an hour or require special tools?

Just thought I'd toss that back out for comments/hints while I start cleaning connections.
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:32 PM
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mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88inNH View Post
@Cloaked
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll attack as two separate issues: pump and ground.

My pump says Johnson Pump F6B-9.
Agree - $185 vs $110 seems a no-brainer.
Where did you get yours (PM me if it's inappropriate to post sources).
Does pump just slide off after unbolt (3 allen bolts on pulley behind it, bracket) or is some sort of "puller" involved?


Out of curiosity: Anybody ever rebuild a F6B-9? Does it takes more than an hour or require special tools?

Just thought I'd toss that back out for comments/hints while I start cleaning connections.
Bunch of people have rebuilt their pumps... check this thread - post #2 has direkshuns...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...509#post168509
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:34 PM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Boat: MasterCraft
Location: Kingston,TN USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88inNH View Post
@Cloaked
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll attack as two separate issues: pump and ground.

My pump says Johnson Pump F6B-9.
Agree - $185 vs $110 seems a no-brainer.
Where did you get yours (PM me if it's inappropriate to post sources).
Does pump just slide off after unbolt (3 allen bolts on pulley behind it, bracket) or is some sort of "puller" involved?


Out of curiosity: Anybody ever rebuild a F6B-9? Does it takes more than an hour or require special tools?

Just thought I'd toss that back out for comments/hints while I start cleaning connections.
My pump is the same as yours. I found the pump at Marine Parts Source ==> http://www.marinepartssource.com/new...%20Pump&mfgno=

Call early enough and they will get it out the same day Fed-Ex ground (free shipping).

This pump cross-references with your OEM pump number. It's the identical pump (F6B-9) which now has a replacement number.

The pump is a crank fit and unbolts with the three allen head screws, just as you pointed out. Nothing else comes loose at that connecting point. The pump is not mounted on an extending shaft. The shaft is all self-contained within the housing and then it rotates by being mounted on the crank pulley at the three allen head bolts.
An allen head wrench, and a socket wrench to remove the positioner bracket from the block which holds the pump in rotational position. Takes all of 15 - 20 minutes tops. Loosen the alternator belt, remove the (1) allen screw at the bottom of the pump where the pump sits down into the positioner bracket, and remove the three allen head screws from the crank pulley and replace, like-for-like. It's a snap.

Rebuilding is not a problem if you have a way to press the old bearings off and new ones in place. I do not have a shop press or similar, so for me, my time in dealing with a machine shop, 'get-to-it-next-week' scenario, I ordered a new one. It arrived the very next day.
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__________________
93 190
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Don't be a boot licker
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Hose picture (internal) http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...68&postcount=8



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrall View Post
..Some of you give a whole new meaning to the phrase "another @sshole with a Mastercraft."

RE: Thrall, Welcome to the club....
NEW SKINS in TN... Leading Edge Marine Interior

feedback on a TN company: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=58767

.

Last edited by Cloaked; 08-24-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:22 PM
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BG1772 BG1772 is offline
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Boat: X-Star, 2001 5.7L LTR
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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If you have a bench vise and a deep well socket of the same size as the bearing, it is pretty easy to rebuild.
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:24 PM
MikeyOrange88 MikeyOrange88 is offline
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Boat: 1988 Tristar 190 Sport (Closed Bow), 351W w/ GT-40's
Location: Southeast
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I had similar problem when my water pump failed. Engine was running extremely poor (never having done that prior), raised the engine cover and saw water spraying everywhere from broken pump (rear of unit). Purchased and installed new water pump and no further issues with the engine missing.
Definitely treat water pump replacement as step one. Changing water pump is straight bolts off, bolts on replacement. Good Luck
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:27 PM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG1772 View Post
If you have a bench vise and a deep well socket of the same size as the bearing, it is pretty easy to rebuild.
Yep. I've got all of that but just not willing..

New seal, - 18
new impeller - 40
new closed face bearings (2) - 39
shipping
tax for TN 0.975%

My time - priceless....

New pump assembly - no wear / no hassles.... good for another 20 years......I'll take it..

.
__________________
93 190
.
Don't be a boot licker
.

Hose picture (internal) http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...68&postcount=8



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrall View Post
..Some of you give a whole new meaning to the phrase "another @sshole with a Mastercraft."

RE: Thrall, Welcome to the club....
NEW SKINS in TN... Leading Edge Marine Interior

feedback on a TN company: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=58767

.
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  #9  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:28 PM
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mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
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Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
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i am in the replace it all camp too... especially this part...
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  #10  
Old 08-24-2013, 07:32 PM
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Lumbergh Lumbergh is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1991 ProStar 190
Location: Seattle
Posts: 716
My Johnson pump was leaking at the aft end.

Pulled pump, new $25 seal and reassembled.

Easy job, maybe 30m work. I wrote it up with pics and so on a few months ago. Maybe search for it...

My local (expensive) boat shop wanted to replace pump too when I got seal from them. I am sure that would have been a $500 job for my 30m worth of work and a seal.

YMMV of course.
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