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  #731  
Old 08-24-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CantRepeat View Post
Why wouldn't the Ron Paul crew do this?
Because the ones who want to block him would say it's just sour grapes. Best, IMO, if it was done by someone outside of the campaign.

The problem I see is that, if he were to get enough votes to make a serious dent in Romney's vote total, Obama would win and I don't consider that a good thing.
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  #732  
Old 08-24-2012, 04:02 PM
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Obama would win and I don't consider that a good thing.
understatement of the year!
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  #733  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Because the ones who want to block him would say it's just sour grapes. Best, IMO, if it was done by someone outside of the campaign.

The problem I see is that, if he were to get enough votes to make a serious dent in Romney's vote total, Obama would win and I don't consider that a good thing.
I think you are missing the point here Jim. The democratic process has been hijacked. I thought the voters were supposed to select the nominee through voting and a set of rules? If there are rules they are there for a reason. This is truly a sad day for america because it goes beyond Ron Paul and this situation. What the rnc is saying is, we will select our nominee, democratic process be damned.

I weep for my childrens future because as voters, they will have no voice, because right now we as voters have very little.
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Last edited by captain planet; 08-25-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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  #734  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:42 AM
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If you want to see what is going on right now, just google Brandon Raub and see what they did to him. So much for freedom of speech in this country. It is gone.

I better watch what I say or they may come for me as well.
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  #735  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
I think you are missing the point here Jim. The democratic process has been hijacked. I thought the voters were supposed to select the nominee through voting and a set of rules? If there are rules they are there for a reason. This is truly a sad day for america because it goes beyond Ron Paul and this situation. What the rnc is saying is, we will select our nominee, democratic process be damned.

I weep for my childrens future because as voters, they will have no voice, because right now we as voters have very little.
I'm not missing any point. You're looking at the election as a process, through a microscope, and I'm looking at it as a tragedy, but with an eye toward changing the current administration. You can vote for Paul, but don't expect him to win. What we need to do is work with the system we have and change what we can. If it gets to the point where we can't change anything because the parties and Congress won't let us, it's time to change who is in power on a wholesale level but there's only one way to do that and since I don't want people in black SUVs coming to get me, I'll stop there.

The parties alternate but the real problem is that it's hard to make everyone happy when there are so many. India doesn't have a good system, Russia certainly doesn't, either. China- ditto. Look at the countries with the largest populations and you'll see what I mean. Smaller countries are easier to run. We could be self-sustaining if the borders were closed, but we'd have to pay China to leave us alone and it would take years before we could supply much of the demand for goods that Americans have developed an insatiable desire for.

If people would take a good, hard look at their own lives and determine what needs fixing, we wouldn't be in this mess. Let's face it- when the parties tell us what we need, it's because too many people have stopped trying. Welfare has turned into a way to enslave those who receive it and that breeds generations of people who won't bother to do much of anything. If they see their group as not gaining any ground in life, they'll do whatever they want, without regard for laws, rules or each other. I seriously doubt many who are in the lowest income groups are glued to their TVs to watch the news. I doubt they watch the candidates debate and I really don't think they see much of a change from one year to the next WRT what they have or what they will achieve. The rare ones will go to school, graduate and make something of themselves, but it's in spite of, not because of, the way things are.

Last edited by JimN; 08-25-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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  #736  
Old 08-26-2012, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
I'm not missing any point. You're looking at the election as a process, through a microscope, and I'm looking at it as a tragedy, but with an eye toward changing the current administration. You can vote for Paul, but don't expect him to win. What we need to do is work with the system we have and change what we can. If it gets to the point where we can't change anything because the parties and Congress won't let us, it's time to change who is in power on a wholesale level but there's only one way to do that and since I don't want people in black SUVs coming to get me, I'll stop there.

The parties alternate but the real problem is that it's hard to make everyone happy when there are so many. India doesn't have a good system, Russia certainly doesn't, either. China- ditto. Look at the countries with the largest populations and you'll see what I mean. Smaller countries are easier to run. We could be self-sustaining if the borders were closed, but we'd have to pay China to leave us alone and it would take years before we could supply much of the demand for goods that Americans have developed an insatiable desire for.

If people would take a good, hard look at their own lives and determine what needs fixing, we wouldn't be in this mess. Let's face it- when the parties tell us what we need, it's because too many people have stopped trying. Welfare has turned into a way to enslave those who receive it and that breeds generations of people who won't bother to do much of anything. If they see their group as not gaining any ground in life, they'll do whatever they want, without regard for laws, rules or each other. I seriously doubt many who are in the lowest income groups are glued to their TVs to watch the news. I doubt they watch the candidates debate and I really don't think they see much of a change from one year to the next WRT what they have or what they will achieve. The rare ones will go to school, graduate and make something of themselves, but it's in spite of, not because of, the way things are.
Therein lies the problem. With the system we have, nothing can get changed. It is either one evil or the other because they have a stranglehold on the process. Now that they have changed the process to make sure they get the guy they want on the ballot in november, we have all been disenfranchised (sp?).

I will vote for Ron Paul and even if he gets 10% of the vote you won't hear about it. In fact the rnc changed the day of the vote for the nominee from Wednesday evening in prime time to Monday during the day so the voices of those voting for Ron Paul won't be televised during the convention. They have also changed the delegate process going forward so that it is basically a winner take all much like Florida was this year. They know this movement isn't going away, the question is how many times will they change the rules to get the guy they want?
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  #737  
Old 08-26-2012, 06:22 PM
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Well, to be honest... vote for a guy that has NO chance at winning the election just so you can say I didn't vote for the other Dbag is just wasting everyone's time. Really, what is accomplished when you go to the polls and do that? You can't be thinking that you are sendng some kind of message to anyone. All you are doing is allowing the current administration to continue on their current path. Really, if Ron Paul wanted to do something that would impact the current state of affairs he too would vote for Romney.

It's just stupid for anyone to continue to think that RP has chance at getting elected and to say, "I didn't vote for that Romney guy" just means a vote for the current dbag.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama!!! I hope you sleep well at night knowing you reelected Obama. CP you voted for Obama! Good job be fanatical about something that just wont help the country.
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  #738  
Old 08-26-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CantRepeat View Post
Well, to be honest... vote for a guy that has NO chance at winning the election just so you can say I didn't vote for the other Dbag is just wasting everyone's time. Really, what is accomplished when you go to the polls and do that? You can't be thinking that you are sendng some kind of message to anyone. All you are doing is allowing the current administration to continue on their current path. Really, if Ron Paul wanted to do something that would impact the current state of affairs he too would vote for Romney.

It's just stupid for anyone to continue to think that RP has chance at getting elected and to say, "I didn't vote for that Romney guy" just means a vote for the current dbag.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama!!! I hope you sleep well at night knowing you reelected Obama. CP you voted for Obama! Good job be fanatical about something that just wont help the country.
Hey, you know what, you can say what you like, there is no real difference between obama and obomney. They both will continue to erode our civil liberties, they both will just keep up in Iraq and Afganistan...for what?, they both are for the NDAA, they are both for executive privilege to take us to war instead of congress doing it as the Constitution states and they both have basically the same health care plan.....so what is the difference?

I'm sure if obomney gets elected things will change immediately and the country will get out of this slump.......oh, wait there is still that pesky debt that neither of these guys will do ANYTHING about. Heck, obomney wants to INCREASE our military! FOR WHAT? We already outspend every other nation combined with our military budget......so what about the budget defecit? Nothing will change, period. obomney may make it a little harder for the gays to get married....and that will REALLY make a difference for the average american.

So, I guess it doesn't really matter who I vote for, these guys are the same, period. But instead of bending to the will of the secret elite who have forced this system upon us, I'm going to STAND for my beliefs and vote with my conscience. And when I get home that day and I look at myself in the mirror, I will be proud that I stood for what I believe in. And years down the road when my children ask me what I did to try to stop our country from the horrible fate we are faced with, I can tell them, "I stood up for what I believe in", what more can I really do?
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  #739  
Old 08-26-2012, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
Hey, you know what, you can say what you like, there is no real difference between obama and obomney. They both will continue to erode our civil liberties, they both will just keep up in Iraq and Afganistan...for what?, they both are for the NDAA, they are both for executive privilege to take us to war instead of congress doing it as the Constitution states and they both have basically the same health care plan.....so what is the difference?

I'm sure if obomney gets elected things will change immediately and the country will get out of this slump.......oh, wait there is still that pesky debt that neither of these guys will do ANYTHING about. Heck, obomney wants to INCREASE our military! FOR WHAT? We already outspend every other nation combined with our military budget......so what about the budget defecit? Nothing will change, period. obomney may make it a little harder for the gays to get married....and that will REALLY make a difference for the average american.

So, I guess it doesn't really matter who I vote for, these guys are the same, period. But instead of bending to the will of the secret elite who have forced this system upon us, I'm going to STAND for my beliefs and vote with my conscience. And when I get home that day and I look at myself in the mirror, I will be proud that I stood for what I believe in. And years down the road when my children ask me what I did to try to stop our country from the horrible fate we are faced with, I can tell them, "I stood up for what I believe in", what more can I really do?
OK, say you vote for Paul and Obama is re-elected. What good did your vote do? I would be surprised if he gets as many votes as Ralph Nader used to and that did nothing to "change the guard". Carter wouldn't have won, Bush I wasn't re-elected because he couldn't follow through on his promise to avoid tax increases. Clinton has too much charisma to not be re-elected and the Lewinsky scandal is proof- they impeached him & had proof, yet he stayed. Reagan went in with an economy that was far worse than it was when Obama went in and he cut government spending to just over 21% of GDP in '89. Now, the Federal Government spends about 66% of GDP- that's insane! Obama has done the opposite of what Reagan did and we'll all be paying for it until we die unless something drastic happens and in that case, we won't have anything to live on, anyway. If Romney's plan is as similar as some say, he'll never be re-elected and it would still be possible for Obama to run again.

Ron Paul could have gained more followers if he had campaigned more effectively. Nobody can say that he was effective enough because his following is too small to make a real statement. Regardless of whether the media ignored him or the RNC stifled his attempts, he could have used his followers to create something similar to a "phone tree", like they used to do when an emergency was near- one person calls three others on a list, each additional person calls three more and in a short time, everyone has heard about it. The 20th set of callers will have called over 116 Million people. Whether they use the phone or e-mail is irrelevant.

The real issue here is, do you want to get the incumbent out of office, or do you want to stand on your principles, when doing that only makes you feel good about the choice you made? Ultimately, it will have done nothing to fix the problems. If things are bad enough, it won't matter if you can't sleep because you voted for the guy who replaced Obama or if the problems are bad enough- you still won't be sleeping. I see no grass-roots movements to get Congress to see that we're PO'd and want things to change. The fact that their approval rating is the lowest in history has had absolutely no effect on them and it's not likely to. The only peaceful things that will make them change is for someone to make them see how PO'd we are and that they will not be re-elected if they continue on their current path or by a large group of new candidates to gather enough votes to unseat them. One non-peaceful method has to do with someone doing something incredibly drastic and making their reasons well-known to the public beforehand- I really hope that doesn't happen.

One of the main premises behind 'Atlas Shrugged' seems more possible now than at any time in our history- "What would happen if the movers and shakers, the ones who get things done, went on strike?" Or worse, what if they left the country? They would take their money, sell as many of their possessions as possible & leave the rest and go somewhere else. The part of the 10% who pay 51% of all taxes would no longer be here to pay their part of the revenue that the country needs to operate and that means the rest of the taxpayers would have to come up with that amount This means more will slide into poverty because of the number of corporations and small businesses that would close when the owners leave. The only bright spot in this is that people on the Right and Left own businesses and corporations and it's not likely that one leader will cause all of them to leave for the same reasons. If that happens, we'll all be screwed.

Last edited by JimN; 08-26-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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  #740  
Old 08-26-2012, 10:00 PM
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OK, say you vote for Paul and Obama is re-elected. What good did your vote do? I would be surprised if he gets as many votes as Ralph Nader used to and that did nothing to "change the guard". Carter wouldn't have won, Bush I wasn't re-elected because he couldn't follow through on his promise to avoid tax increases. Clinton has too much charisma to not be re-elected and the Lewinsky scandal is proof- they impeached him & had proof, yet he stayed. Reagan went in with an economy that was far worse than it was when Obama went in and he cut government spending to just over 21% of GDP in '89. Now, the Federal Government spends about 66% of GDP- that's insane! Obama has done the opposite of what Reagan did and we'll all be paying for it until we die unless something drastic happens and in that case, we won't have anything to live on, anyway. If Romney's plan is as similar as some say, he'll never be re-elected and it would still be possible for Obama to run again.

Ron Paul could have gained more followers if he had campaigned more effectively. Nobody can say that he was effective enough because his following is too small to make a real statement. Regardless of whether the media ignored him or the RNC stifled his attempts, he could have used his followers to create something similar to a "phone tree", like they used to do when an emergency was near- one person calls three others on a list, each additional person calls three more and in a short time, everyone has heard about it. The 20th set of callers will have called over 116 Million people. Whether they use the phone or e-mail is irrelevant.
Jim, if you truly believe this, than you have not viewed ONE thing I have put on this thread demonstrating how the media blacked-out the Ron Paul campaign. How many times did you see on the news that Ron Paul gets more donations from service members than all the other candidates put together? You didn't. You are a smart enough guy to see and hear the Ron Paul message and say to yourself, 'this guy makes sense and has been right about a lot of stuff". What has been obomney's campaign?, "I'm not obama". Zero substance to anything he says. "We need to create jobs, I'm not obama". No $^@# Sherlock, how you gonna do it?

Ron Paul was railroaded by the rnc primary voting doesn't mean anything anymore, welcome to the FSA!
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