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Old 06-29-2010, 09:48 PM
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DBBOOM DBBOOM is offline
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Boat: MC Tri-star 190 1989
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Cleaning needle and seat ?

I've noticed that my carb is dripping from the primaries when the boat is shut off. I searched a few threads and have decided to clean the needles and seats. I have never done this and would like some insight or pics showing what i need to remove from the float bowl and clean. I have replaced power valves before, but have never went any further into a carb. My basic worry is that i will not reinstall them properly and cause problems. The boat is a 1989 MC TriStar 190 351ci Indmar w/4160 Holley. I recently changed the fuel pump and line and this problem developed. I believe that some trash might have gotten in when i swapped the parts. Thanks in advance for any help.
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  #2  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:18 PM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
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Originally Posted by DBBOOM View Post
I've noticed that my carb is dripping from the primaries when the boat is shut off. I searched a few threads and have decided to clean the needles and seats. I have never done this and would like some insight or pics showing what i need to remove from the float bowl and clean. I have replaced power valves before, but have never went any further into a carb. My basic worry is that i will not reinstall them properly and cause problems. The boat is a 1989 MC TriStar 190 351ci Indmar w/4160 Holley. I recently changed the fuel pump and line and this problem developed. I believe that some trash might have gotten in when i swapped the parts. Thanks in advance for any help.
If I was tearing it down to that point, I'd put in a rebuild kit.


http://www.holley.com/Index.asp?division=Holley

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I have a nice PowerPoint for your needs but DB's here do not allow .ppt file attachments. :idunno:

PM me an e-addy if you want to look.
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  #3  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:54 PM
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Heed the good advice from Cloaked.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-2010, 12:48 PM
christsaves
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if it were me i would just go ahead and replace both needle and seat valves .. it really is no big deal to replace and adjust them.. you dont have to tare into the carb to replace them.. they are right on top of the carb.. one on the front bowl and one on the back.. all you should need to do the job is a 5/8 wrench and a flat head screwdriver (the bigger the screwdriver the better).. use the screwdriver to break them loose then you should be able to just screw them out by hand.. once they are out it will be up to you as to wether you want or need to change the gaskets.. then just put the new ones in..start the engine and set the needle and seat.. there are two brass screws that should be on the right side of the carb.. one on front bowl and one on back.. pull them out....you use the 5/8 to adjust the float level and the screwdriver to lock down.. turn to the right to take the level down and to the left to bring it up.. the two brass screws is where you check the level.. if gas is steady coming out of the hole the level is too high.. if you can rock the boat and no gas at all is coming out the level is too low.. you should be able to give the boat a little shake and see gas come out.. you want the gas level to be right at the bottom of the hole where you removed the brass screws..
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christsaves View Post
if it were me i would just go ahead and replace both needle and seat valves .. it really is no big deal to replace and adjust them.. you dont have to tare into the carb to replace them.. they are right on top of the carb.. one on the front bowl and one on the back.. all you should need to do the job is a 5/8 wrench and a flat head screwdriver (the bigger the screwdriver the better).. use the screwdriver to break them loose then you should be able to just screw them out by hand.. once they are out it will be up to you as to wether you want or need to change the gaskets.. then just put the new ones in..start the engine and set the needle and seat.. there are two brass screws that should be on the right side of the carb.. one on front bowl and one on back.. pull them out....you use the 5/8 to adjust the float level and the screwdriver to lock down.. turn to the right to take the level down and to the left to bring it up.. the two brass screws is where you check the level.. if gas is steady coming out of the hole the level is too high.. if you can rock the boat and no gas at all is coming out the level is too low.. you should be able to give the boat a little shake and see gas come out.. you want the gas level to be right at the bottom of the hole where you removed the brass screws..
With a 4160 of this vintage there is a pretty good chance the needle and seat is not accessible from outside of the carb and it will be required to take the fuel bowls off. If this is the case, the floats must also be set dry with the bowl separated from the carb.

Has the carb been rebuild recently? If not, you will probably destroy the seals taking the carb apart and it only takes purchasing a few parts before you should just spend the $25 on a rebuild kit (you can order it from you local parts store, should be the 703-29 but you should contact holley and verify by the list # stamped on your carb).

If you have rebuilt it recently, then you should have the new seals that tend not to stick and the needle and seat are probably the newer style with the rubber tip which should clean up well. In that case, just disassemble, clean, set the float, put back together. That is really all there is to it.

<edit> there is also a chance your float has a leak in it and will need to be replaced. Check that out while you have it apart <\edit>
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christsaves View Post
if it were me i would just go ahead and replace both needle and seat valves .. it really is no big deal to replace and adjust them.. you dont have to tare into the carb to replace them.. they are right on top of the carb.. one on the front bowl and one on the back.. all you should need to do the job is a 5/8 wrench and a flat head screwdriver (the bigger the screwdriver the better).. use the screwdriver to break them loose then you should be able to just screw them out by hand.. once they are out it will be up to you as to wether you want or need to change the gaskets.. then just put the new ones in..start the engine and set the needle and seat.. there are two brass screws that should be on the right side of the carb.. one on front bowl and one on back.. pull them out....you use the 5/8 to adjust the float level and the screwdriver to lock down.. turn to the right to take the level down and to the left to bring it up.. the two brass screws is where you check the level.. if gas is steady coming out of the hole the level is too high.. if you can rock the boat and no gas at all is coming out the level is too low.. you should be able to give the boat a little shake and see gas come out.. you want the gas level to be right at the bottom of the hole where you removed the brass screws..
Thanks for the reply, but my 4160 does not have that style bowls. The float is fixed and there are no sight holes. Also thanks to everyone else for their input. I am just wanting to clean the needle and seats though. I am going to purchase a new carb or have this one vatted and built at the END of summer. Would like to use the boat as much as possible while the weather is nice. The boat runs out fine as it is, just a little hard to start if the primaries are dripping when it is cut off.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2010, 03:53 PM
EricB EricB is offline
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Remove the fuel inlet line to the carb and plug. Start engine up and run until the gas is out of the carb (engine will die). Re-install fuel line to carb (making sure it is clean) and crank over until it re-starts.
The intent of this excersize is to remove the small amount of debris that may be stuck between the needle and seat. From what I read, this drip developed right after you took off the fuel line and hooked it back up. This would indicate that the crap/debris was most likely introduced by you.
So remove it again but plug and run out of fuel. The incoming rush of fuel into the bowl(s) will most likely flush out the debris from the needle and seat, and it will be working properly.
Worth a try...it costs nothing and can be very sucessful and time/money saving.
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2010, 04:38 PM
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SugarLake SugarLake is offline
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Boat: 88 Prostar 190 351W 1:1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB View Post
Remove the fuel inlet line to the carb and plug. Start engine up and run until the gas is out of the carb (engine will die). Re-install fuel line to carb (making sure it is clean) and crank over until it re-starts.
The intent of this excersize is to remove the small amount of debris that may be stuck between the needle and seat. From what I read, this drip developed right after you took off the fuel line and hooked it back up. This would indicate that the crap/debris was most likely introduced by you.
So remove it again but plug and run out of fuel. The incoming rush of fuel into the bowl(s) will most likely flush out the debris from the needle and seat, and it will be working properly.
Worth a try...it costs nothing and can be very sucessful and time/money saving.
Good advice but I'm not sure how you can plug a fuel line that is under pressure with the engine running. I can envision gas spraying everywhere. You can accomplish the same thing by just removing one of the bottom screws holding the float bowl on and letting it drain. I just cut a pop can down with a utility knife to make a small container to drain it into.

You could also try removing the fuel line and spraying some compressed air into the bowl once it has been drained.
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  #9  
Old 06-30-2010, 09:22 PM
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I stopped by the parts store and bought a $25 Holley kit with all the parts i needed. I went home and pulled both bowls, installed new needles and seats, bowl gaskets and cleaned everything. Just finished reinstalling the carb..........................problem solved. Thanks for the help and suggestions from everyone. Nice to hear from people with knowledge and experience.
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2010, 12:41 AM
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thatsmrmastercraft thatsmrmastercraft is online now
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Glad to hear that the problem is resolved. Back to having fun.
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