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  #11  
Old 06-27-2005, 01:53 PM
gregg gregg is offline
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Dual battery systems do not have to isolated to be effective. If the system you use works, then stick with it. I, too, debated about the best way, and with 30 years experiance in the automotive repair field I know that, for example diesel trucks with a dual battery set up use no relays to seperate the batteries. What they do, that is different, and the way my batteries are connected is very simple. The positive cables to the boat are connected to the positive post of the main battery. The negative cables to the boat are connected to the negative post of the second battery. Then, the batteries are connected together in parallel. This does one very important thing. The batteries are discharged and charged evenly. The biggest enemy in a Marine battery's life, are number of cycles (discharging and recharging) and heat. When you isolate one battery and discharge it completely, it has not only been thru one deep cycle, but also creates more internal heat in the recharge process.
Diesel, I am in no way saying your system is wrong. I decided after my own experiance and research, and a pow wow with my Interstate Battery rep.(who knows batteries inside and out), that this system works the best for me. Even after a day at the beach running 2 amps, I have never had an issue. You are right about one thing, if you poop both batteries, you are screwed, so I just keep a booster pack charged and on board just in case. However, in 3 seasons with my 2002 maristar 210 have never had to use it. The other important thing for a marine battery is to keep it fully charged in the off season. When a battery becomes discharged, the acid absorbs into the plates causing sulfation, and leaves the water in a state that will freeze.
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2005, 02:01 PM
zberger zberger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregg
Dual battery systems do not have to isolated to be effective. If the system you use works, then stick with it. I, too, debated about the best way, and with 30 years experiance in the automotive repair field I know that, for example diesel trucks with a dual battery set up use no relays to seperate the batteries. What they do, that is different, and the way my batteries are connected is very simple. The positive cables to the boat are connected to the positive post of the main battery. The negative cables to the boat are connected to the negative post of the second battery. Then, the batteries are connected together in parallel. This does one very important thing. The batteries are discharged and charged evenly. The biggest enemy in a Marine battery's life, are number of cycles (discharging and recharging) and heat. When you isolate one battery and discharge it completely, it has not only been thru one deep cycle, but also creates more internal heat in the recharge process.
Diesel, I am in no way saying your system is wrong. I decided after my own experiance and research, and a pow wow with my Interstate Battery rep.(who knows batteries inside and out), that this system works the best for me. Even after a day at the beach running 2 amps, I have never had an issue. You are right about one thing, if you poop both batteries, you are screwed, so I just keep a booster pack charged and on board just in case. However, in 3 seasons with my 2002 maristar 210 have never had to use it. The other important thing for a marine battery is to keep it fully charged in the off season. When a battery becomes discharged, the acid absorbs into the plates causing sulfation, and leaves the water in a state that will freeze.
I've seen this used this way in car audio applications but never in a boat app..

The first boat stereo I did was for a very good friend of mine's grandfathers boat (his gramps has become older and isn't using it much but has a lake house) anyways, we added an isolator and a 2nd marine battery (biggest one walmart had..) I would have like to use all optima's but they just weren't in the budget.. someday maybe! Since this boat was going to be used by others and not just me and my buddy or his dad, this option was just not a viable one.. we wanted the extra off key (motor off) playing time.. and doing just 1 battery, or 2 in parallel was just not something we could do. Even in my own boat I think I would isolate them still.

I need to bring a volt meter out with me this weekend to see what kind of voltage we are getting when the boat is at full throttle.. but it works great, stereo is loud! I am hoping for around 12 volts in each battery before we start the boat.. some somewhere in the low 13's at throttle. My buddies dad did comment the boat has been running considerably better now that we have the dual batteries in.. could have been a grounding issue before, not sure.

We are adding a 12" Image Dynamics IDQ subwoofer undernear the rear seat in an enclosure we made out of 1/2 inch MDF and I am getting it line-x'd this weekend.
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2005, 02:46 PM
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Diesel Diesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregg
Dual battery systems do not have to isolated to be effective. If the system you use works, then stick with it. I, too, debated about the best way, and with 30 years experiance in the automotive repair field I know that, for example diesel trucks with a dual battery set up use no relays to seperate the batteries. What they do, that is different, and the way my batteries are connected is very simple. The positive cables to the boat are connected to the positive post of the main battery. The negative cables to the boat are connected to the negative post of the second battery. Then, the batteries are connected together in parallel. This does one very important thing. The batteries are discharged and charged evenly. The biggest enemy in a Marine battery's life, are number of cycles (discharging and recharging) and heat. When you isolate one battery and discharge it completely, it has not only been thru one deep cycle, but also creates more internal heat in the recharge process.
Diesel, I am in no way saying your system is wrong. I decided after my own experiance and research, and a pow wow with my Interstate Battery rep.(who knows batteries inside and out), that this system works the best for me. Even after a day at the beach running 2 amps, I have never had an issue. You are right about one thing, if you poop both batteries, you are screwed, so I just keep a booster pack charged and on board just in case. However, in 3 seasons with my 2002 maristar 210 have never had to use it. The other important thing for a marine battery is to keep it fully charged in the off season. When a battery becomes discharged, the acid absorbs into the plates causing sulfation, and leaves the water in a state that will freeze.
Good comments.............

The only issue I have with not isolating a parallel set of batteries is the continous voltage flow between the batteries. This is a non-issue in most vehicles (including diesels) because they are driven frequently. As a result the alternator has an opportunity to keep both batteries at full voltage to minimize discharge between the two batteries. Since a boat is not driven every day two batteries stored in parallel will eventually destroy each other.

In addition it is easy to see why you have never drained the two batteries since your stereo is only pulling two amps . At 90% my current system will pull 165 amps . I can drain two brand new optima blue tops in 3 hours very easily.

As a result, isolation not only give me the security of knowing I can make it back to the dock but it also gives me the security of knowing the two batteries are not going to kill themselves.
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2005, 02:50 PM
bcampbe7 bcampbe7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
Good comments.............

The only issue I have with not isolating a parallel set of batteries is the continous voltage flow between the batteries. This is a non-issue in most vehicles (including diesels) because they are driven frequently. As a result the alternator has an opportunity to keep both batteries at full voltage to minimize discharge between the two batteries. Since a boat is not driven every day two batteries stored in parallel will eventually destroy each other.

In addition it is easy to see why you have never drained the two batteries since your stereo is only pulling two amps . At 90% my current system will pull 165 amps . I can drain two brand new optima blue tops in 3 hours very easily.

As a result, isolation not only give me the security of knowing I can make it back to the dock but it also gives me the security of knowing the two batteries are not going to kill themselves.

I think he may have meant 2 amplifiers. Maybe not, just my thinking. At any rate, thanks for the write-up Diesel! I am wanting to add a battery, this will come in very handy.
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2005, 03:00 PM
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Diesel Diesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcampbe7
I think he may have meant 2 amplifiers. Maybe not, just my thinking. At any rate, thanks for the write-up Diesel! I am wanting to add a battery, this will come in very handy.
I'm laughing at myself right now I knew there was no way he had a stereo that only pulled 2 amps . Your explanation makes so much more sense.........thanks
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2005, 03:41 PM
zberger zberger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
Good comments.............

The only issue I have with not isolating a parallel set of batteries is the continous voltage flow between the batteries. This is a non-issue in most vehicles (including diesels) because they are driven frequently. As a result the alternator has an opportunity to keep both batteries at full voltage to minimize discharge between the two batteries. Since a boat is not driven every day two batteries stored in parallel will eventually destroy each other.

In addition it is easy to see why you have never drained the two batteries since your stereo is only pulling two amps . At 90% my current system will pull 165 amps . I can drain two brand new optima blue tops in 3 hours very easily.

As a result, isolation not only give me the security of knowing I can make it back to the dock but it also gives me the security of knowing the two batteries are not going to kill themselves.
I love where you mounted those batteries too.. very creative.
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  #17  
Old 06-27-2005, 05:09 PM
gregg gregg is offline
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Sorry, yes I did mean 2 amplifiers, mtx280 for the sub, and jl audio for the componants and tower speakers, 80 to 100 amp draw, at boat to beach volumn levels, so my system is a bit smaller than yours. I would still debate the theory of the amps or volts traveling between batteries unless one of the batteries had an internal short or drain. The batteries are discharged and charged equally, so there is no amperage flow of any kind. For sure a bad battery would ruin a good battery, which is why they should always be replace in pairs. For the voltage to push the amperage, the amperage has to have a load or place to go( light, amplifier ect.). The bottom line is even though these are deep cycle batteries and meant to run accessories for long periods of time, the deeper you drain or cycle them the shorter the life due to heat and sulfation of the plates. In my opinion or theory if you will, your system would actually work your batteries harder because you could and probably do completely discharge one of your batteries. When you start your boat and connect your batteries together, not only is your alternator charging your low battery, but your full battery is also transfering amperage into your low battery. Again, I am not saying your system is wrong or mine is right, just a different way getting one thing done..enjoying great tunes on a hot day with a cold beer!!
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  #18  
Old 06-27-2005, 05:23 PM
zberger zberger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregg
Sorry, yes I did mean 2 amplifiers, mtx280 for the sub, and jl audio for the componants and tower speakers, 80 to 100 amp draw, at boat to beach volumn levels, so my system is a bit smaller than yours. I would still debate the theory of the amps or volts traveling between batteries unless one of the batteries had an internal short or drain. The batteries are discharged and charged equally, so there is no amperage flow of any kind. For sure a bad battery would ruin a good battery, which is why they should always be replace in pairs. For the voltage to push the amperage, the amperage has to have a load or place to go( light, amplifier ect.). The bottom line is even though these are deep cycle batteries and meant to run accessories for long periods of time, the deeper you drain or cycle them the shorter the life due to heat and sulfation of the plates. In my opinion or theory if you will, your system would actually work your batteries harder because you could and probably do completely discharge one of your batteries. When you start your boat and connect your batteries together, not only is your alternator charging your low battery, but your full battery is also transfering amperage into your low battery. Again, I am not saying your system is wrong or mine is right, just a different way getting one thing done..enjoying great tunes on a hot day with a cold beer!!
To me, the easiest answer to all your questions is.. why not get the 30 dollar part.. and save yourself the trouble from even worrying about it all..
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2006, 11:56 AM
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Andyg Andyg is offline
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Diesel,

Can you repost the pictures you had in this thread? Do you have a picture of where you relocated your batteries to? It thought I remember you saying you relocated them to you bilge compartment.


Thanks


Andy
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2006, 12:27 PM
Cloaked Cloaked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
I see this topic come up many times so.....
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/search.php?

Works every time...

...dismissing laziness...

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