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  #301  
Old 07-27-2013, 09:21 PM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Originally Posted by CantRepeat View Post
The OP gave you credit for looking it up.

BTW: 49 inch pounds = 4 foot pounds and I don't know of many foot pound torque wrenches that go that low.
Well, I guess you could choke up on it.
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  #302  
Old 07-27-2013, 09:58 PM
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BrushyCreekXS BrushyCreekXS is offline
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Look at the regulator on the pump- it's the original one, right? Does the pressure drop at all while the engine is running? Also, make sure to use the purge valve on the pressure gauge- it removes air from the line/gauge. While it's connected, take a fuel sample- it will give you the sample AND purge the tester. Look for another one at the fuel rail- post some photos of the fuel rail, Shrader valve and anything else that seems like it may be pertinent.
Yes, original regulator. This is the first time to change anything, including fuel filter. The pressure does not drop at any rpm...idle through load it stays at 70. I did not bleed or purge the air out while it was in use, however I did push that purge button a few times when the engine was not on. Could that make it read that much high if there was air in it? All measurements were made at the fuel rail where I could screw the gauge fitting onto the schrader valve. When you say look for another one at the fuel rail, what are you referring to?

Thx.
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  #303  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:17 AM
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BrushyCreekXS BrushyCreekXS is offline
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Originally Posted by uplander View Post
Check Grainger or McMaster Carr they have multiple torque wrenches. If you order from Grainger you normally get it the next day. We have very small torque wrenches at work, you can also get one for smaller applications like this one that are small and easy to work with.

here is a nice small unit

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SK-...-Wrench-22P024
Thanks for the link. That's a good fit for what I was looking for.
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  #304  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:01 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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A cheap clicker-type wrench is more accurate than the beam-type and I'm surprised those are still made. There's a reason the clicker-type are more expensive and the amount of torque is important. Also, it's possible to use a clicker torque wrench without seeing the dial.

If a small Allen wrench is used or a hex driver on a 1/4" ratchet, spending $90-$300 on a torque wrench for one use isn't needed. Snug the screws all around and then go a little tighter. It's usually possible to feel when they're not going to go tighter without causing a problem.
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  #305  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:50 AM
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BrushyCreekXS BrushyCreekXS is offline
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
A cheap clicker-type wrench is more accurate than the beam-type and I'm surprised those are still made. There's a reason the clicker-type are more expensive and the amount of torque is important. Also, it's possible to use a clicker torque wrench without seeing the dial.

If a small Allen wrench is used or a hex driver on a 1/4" ratchet, spending $90-$300 on a torque wrench for one use isn't needed. Snug the screws all around and then go a little tighter. It's usually possible to feel when they're not going to go tighter without causing a problem.
Hi JimN,

Thanks. That is what I ended up doing. I took a small allen wrench 3/16 and put my hand all the way up towards the bolt head so as not to use the entire lever arm of the allen wrench and went around the circle so to speak snugging each one up until I felt like all were sufficiently tight with out fear of stripping anything.

Do you have any thoughts on the pump not priming the fuel rail with one key on, i.e. one turn of the key, as it always did with the Carter pump before it failed vs. having to repeat that 3 times before it will start? Also, I traded the fuel pressure test gauge out yesterday to take another one down just in case I had a defective gauge. If I really do have 70psi at the fuel rail, would that do any damage? Also, would it dump to much fuel into the cylinder even possibly flood it.

Is it possible that the 2044 replacement pump I used could be defective...relative to priming, or possibly the regulator? Not sure what to attack next.

I will go back down later this week and get pics to post, work is getting in the way.

Thx.
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  #306  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:18 PM
shunra shunra is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushyCreekXS View Post
Guys, mixed success unfortunately. Electrically everything seems fine. I am getting power to the pump module; I replaced the pump with the 2044, and I also replaced the filter. Reassembled and have fuel pressure. Couple of downsides, I am measuring 70 psi at the fuel rail. The fuel pressure test gauge is new; $45 at autozone. I get 70 at prime then back to zero after a couple of seconds. It is 70 when idling and 70 if I engage the throttle and accelerate. However I did not want to run it anymore in case 70 psi was going to cause any issue to the system. The other anomaly that is not good is that after it sits for a few minutes, I have to prime the system with key on about 3 times to get the pressure back up to start. It again goes to 70 psi.

This was harsh. Hoped to be back out on the water. Have y'all seen anything like this?

Thx.
Very similar experience here. After changing out the pump and filter, the fuel system will not hold pressure after prime. Runs great though, good pressure at idle and full throttle etc.

In my case I am sure it is not a problem with the guage. I tested my old pump before I changed it and although the old one did not develop the necessary pressure, it did hold that lower pressure even after the key was off.
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  #307  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:19 PM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushyCreekXS View Post
Hi JimN,

Thanks. That is what I ended up doing. I took a small allen wrench 3/16 and put my hand all the way up towards the bolt head so as not to use the entire lever arm of the allen wrench and went around the circle so to speak snugging each one up until I felt like all were sufficiently tight with out fear of stripping anything.

Do you have any thoughts on the pump not priming the fuel rail with one key on, i.e. one turn of the key, as it always did with the Carter pump before it failed vs. having to repeat that 3 times before it will start? Also, I traded the fuel pressure test gauge out yesterday to take another one down just in case I had a defective gauge. If I really do have 70psi at the fuel rail, would that do any damage? Also, would it dump to much fuel into the cylinder even possibly flood it.

Is it possible that the 2044 replacement pump I used could be defective...relative to priming, or possibly the regulator? Not sure what to attack next.

I will go back down later this week and get pics to post, work is getting in the way.

Thx.
Two kinds of pumps are made- one for a specific pressure range and another for a specific volume of delivery. I would look up the specs for the original pump and also for the new one. IIRC, the original was spec'd for something like 1 cup of fuel in 20 seconds.
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  #308  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:24 PM
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André André is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shunra View Post
Very similar experience here. After changing out the pump and filter, the fuel system will not hold pressure after prime...
Friend had the same problem causing hard start and long cranking.
His hose was leaking inside the tank after pump replacement.Fixed it and all was good after.
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  #309  
Old 07-29-2013, 03:17 PM
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BrushyCreekXS BrushyCreekXS is offline
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Originally Posted by André View Post
Friend had the same problem causing hard start and long cranking.
His hose was leaking inside the tank after pump replacement.Fixed it and all was good after.
Hi Andre',

When you say "fixed it", did they use a different clamp, also where was it leaking inside the tank, at the regulator end or the pump end of the fuel line? I carefully removed the one time use clamp at the pump end when I swapped out pumps so I could reuse the original fuel line, and I did not touch the regulator end.
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  #310  
Old 07-29-2013, 03:55 PM
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BrushyCreekXS BrushyCreekXS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Two kinds of pumps are made- one for a specific pressure range and another for a specific volume of delivery. I would look up the specs for the original pump and also for the new one. IIRC, the original was spec'd for something like 1 cup of fuel in 20 seconds.
You are correct. The OEM pump was rated at 1pint / 20sec which = 22.5 Gal/HR, I do not know what it was rated for in terms of output psi. Does anyone know?

The 2044 pump, which I used, is rated at 40+Gal/HR and 90-100psi. I have not read in any of these threads with the many that have used the 2044 that they are getting the higher pressure at the fuel rail like I am. Could the 2044 pump be presenting too much pressure to the regulator?

It makes sense that if there is a leak internally within the pump module that it could loose pressure after prime, but I used a small new screw on clamp that came with the new pump and seated the line well all the way down on the pump outlet, and tightened the clamp very tight and flush trying to avoid this very thing. I would be shocked if it was leaking, but I guess that is a possibility.
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