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  #11  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:35 AM
BearCreek BearCreek is offline
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Befor I ever had a fuel pump problem I had ran my boat on empty many times to the point were I actually ran out of gas at least three times. I actually had to put a gallon in just to get to the gas station. I have a short trip from my marinia and were I ride with a gas station on the way, so when I read all this buisness about not running under a 1/4 tank I was curious as to why that is.
Then I seen that it only applied to the newer MC's. After closer inspection, I noticed the new MC's only have one line from the module to the motor and mine has two, supply and return. When my boat is below a quarter tank and I turn my key on the pump primes the lines and dumps back in to the canister. While running it, it continues to fill the canister above the tank fuel level, because the pump rate is faster then the fuel will excape from the bottom of the filter. If you have ever pulled your model you see that the fuel dosen't exit the canister to quickly. This keeps my canister full which submerges the pump in fuel to keep it cool. Since In the new MC's you don't have a return line, I would suspect that the pump will continue to pull only the fuel through the filter, in low fuel situations, leaving the pump exposed, without the fuel in the canister it has a less cooling property's surrounding the pump, hense over heating. NOt sure but something someone should look in to.
Maybe someone with the singal line setup can try and run their boat at a half tank and pull their regulator off the top of the module to see if the canister is full. On my boat I was at a 1/4 tank and the fuel almost overflowed out of the whole on top the module (were the regulator was).
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2008, 02:49 PM
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ChrisG ChrisG is offline
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boofer...excellent post. Very nice pictures. I actually just replaced my fuel pump a few weeks ago (pump only). I can honestly say I wouldn't have been able to complete the job correctly with out the help from everyone on this board.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2008, 02:59 PM
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rhsprostar rhsprostar is offline
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Boofer
Keep up the good work!
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2008, 03:14 PM
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boofer boofer is offline
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Bigmac, I am pretty certain that the filter is not restricting the flow of fuel at any level. I poured gas into a pan to about 3 inches deep. I placed the filter in the pan and it immediately filled up with gas. I was expecting to see it trickle in, but that was not the case. The level of the gas inside the filter equaled the level of gas on the outside of the filter within milliseconds. So, the filter does not restrict fuel. By the way, this is the replacement filter I used on my old module only a few months ago prior to replacing the whole fuel module. The new module came with a new filter.

I am really puzzled though by this small black disk. I cannot see any useful purpose. I basically used the same pan of gas. I slowly sunk the bottom of the module in the pan of gas (without the pump so that I could see the gas). Gas would not populate the small area at the bottom of the module until the module was all the way in the gas. I cannot recall now if I had the filter attached. I do not think that it was attached since I was trying to see what effect this disk has on flow to the pump. Basically the disk floats. When there is sufficient gas to float it, it will unplug the hole allowing fuel to go to the pump. If it is not floating the hole is closed and fuel will not get to the pump. Plus, I would gander that the pump is able to somewhat pull this small "valve" open when it is running. But, that would make it a restriction. I cannot really say one way or the other what the purpose of this disk is. It would keep air out of the pump at low fuel levels. But, regardless, air in the pump or no fuel available to the pump equals overheat.

Bear, it is the fuel that goes through the pump that cools the pump. The fuel on the outside can aide in cooling, but the pump is designed to be actively cooled by the flow of fuel through the pump.

I am 50/50 with that "newer" fuel hose form the pump to the regulator. The old hose was definitely "substantial," but it did have the noticeable kink. The new hose is much stiffer than it looks. And it flexes well. I wonder if the corrugation helps reduce the flow to the regulator and eases the job of the regulator without creating any backpressure. But, one of the board members posted his problems with the dual pump (Milinium?) setup on his boat. Here is the link to his post. http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ight=fuel+hose

Remember, the Carter brochure is just that; a brochure. The electrical issue (melted contacts) was experienced by a board member. He posted pictures just recently. But, I did learn that the pump was too restrictive and easily clogged which led to the high failure rate. I believe that I found this while researching the GM problems with the Carter pumps and the MC representative echoed the same information to me in the email. The pump was redesigned to be less restrictive and more tolerant of debris. When I say "debris," we are talking microscopic.

What I see for now is a poorly designed pump. It was replaced in GM motors. So, why not do it in ours? I am still awaiting a reply to my question as to whether or not my new module came with the newer turbine style pump. If not, then I must really question MC's policies. They apparently thought there was enough of a problem to use a different pump(s) on newer boats. If they are not actively trying to get these newer pumps in older boats (replacement modules with the newer pumps) then I must call foul.
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Last edited by boofer; 08-11-2008 at 03:21 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:10 PM
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PeterN PeterN is offline
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Kudos Boofer, great post !!!

I own a 2006 X-45 with an L-18 engine. Last week I had to change my fuel pump the second time (same happened last summer during a storm ). Let's say, I am somehow experienced replacing the fuel pump.

Because my MC is out of warranty, I tried to find out if I can get this tiny fuel pump somewhere without replacing the whole kit (and being charged with 600 EUR, roughly 900 USD).

I was lucky, the MEAT & DORIA 76201 is exactly the fuel pump I needed, bought in a standard car parts shop in SalÚ (Lake Garda, Italy) for small money. Obviously this pump is standard in Fiat automobiles.


Quote:
So what about this floating disk? Sounds like it is designed to only allow the pump to run if there is enough fuel to pick up?
This "floating disk" is a valve, holding back fuel in the plastic container, even if the fuel tank is almost empty.

My analysis: both pumps has been burned due to lack of cooling or bad manufacturing quality. I never ever ran my boat below 1/4 tank. This "floating disk" valve might be the key for all problems. If this valve is not floating properly, the container reservoir will not be filled properly with enough fuel, the pump run out of fuel and cooling.
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2008, 02:53 PM
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FlatBoard FlatBoard is offline
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Great follow up on the fuel pump Boofer!! I have a new pump still in the box from MC, and will be returning to my boat next week to install.. Thanks to your thread I am able to handle this myself thus saving me a fortune on labor and a ton of gas not having to tow to the shop. I will print the pictures for an intallation guide and pull apart the old pump to see if it has any of the issues discussed here.

You have a VIP privaleges any time you are in Lake Cumberland!! Just look me up and I will spring for free rides and beverages.
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  #17  
Old 08-21-2008, 09:36 PM
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boofer boofer is offline
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PeterN,

I must caution you about using an aftermarket pump. Just because it may fit does not mean that it is able to meet the demands of your motor. Please be careful!!!

FlatBoard,

Thanks for the kudos. I hope the install goes well for you. Just be real careful with the 12 bolts that go on the module. It took me several minutes to ease each bolt in correctly. Despite the fact that the tank was empty, the bolt holes did not align perfectly. I will take you up on your offer if I find my way to your neck of the woods.
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  #18  
Old 08-21-2008, 10:07 PM
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boofer boofer is offline
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Okay boys and girls, this is getting a little deep.

I finally received a reply from MC. They said that the pump in my old module and in my new module should be the newer turbine style pump. They said that the change was made in the '02-'03 time frame.

So, is it a turbine style pump? I have emailed Carter/Federal Mogul and politely requested that they tell me how to determine if a pump is the turbine pump. I know from calling them that they have an agreement with MC to not reveal any detailed specifications. I am hoping that they will comply with my request since I can simply dismantle this pump and verify which kind of pump it is.

Now, if both pumps are the turbine style pumps, we are back to square one. I have been to the Federated store and spoke with the fellow I mentioned a while back. He has ordered a pump that he believes will work. I am going to try to get by there tomorrow and see what he has. When I showed him the complete fuel module he recognized it minus the top plate which is specific to our boats. He even showed me the filter in his catalog. But, he was unable to draw a specific cross reference based on any of the nomenclature on the pump or the module. The "71-342S" which is on the top plate mimics Carter part numbers (7x-xxx). I am also going to ask him if he can tell if my old pump is a turbine style pump.

I am not feeling any good vibes right now. I honestly think that both the old pump and the new pump are NOT the turbine style pumps. In the back of my mind I am thinking CALS. If it gets to that point, then at least maybe we can finally get some concrete answers and possibly a REAL fix.
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:03 AM
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PeterN PeterN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boofer View Post
PeterN,

I must caution you about using an aftermarket pump. Just because it may fit does not mean that it is able to meet the demands of your motor. Please be careful!!!
Thanks boofer for the warning, but the only thing a fuel pump does, is pumping fuel - with a specific operation pressure. The MEAT & DORIA pump delivers 3.8 bar (= 55.114 PSI at sea level), which exactly meets the L-18 specs between 53 and 58 PSI. The worst case can be that the pump is not working anymore - this happened twice in 8 month with the genuine Carter pump
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:10 AM
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rhsprostar rhsprostar is offline
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PeterN
How did you ever cross reference that pump!? Good work. WHat is the GPH? or LPH? That would be your only other concern regarding capacity other than pressure.
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