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  #1  
Old 08-12-2007, 11:59 AM
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dh_bennison dh_bennison is offline
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Will changing my prop help Perfect pass??

I went out fo my first proper day in my 04 X10 today. The only problem we had was the boat took ages to get to 23mph when the Perfect Pass was on. Also initally it would accelaerate upto about 26 / 27 before dropping back to 23mph. Once it had dropped back to 23mph it struggled to hold the speed when we put ballast in, it seemed like the engine could not keep up with the adjustments the Perfect Pass was making. Im thinking that most of this is down to the current prop which is a 14 x 19.5 but would like some confirmation from you guys.

Also if I switch to a Acme 845 13.5 x 16 I know my hole shot will improve but will it help the boat to hold its speed better????? I am thinking that this prop would help the engine to react more quickly.

Im in the UK and have to order props from the US so any opinions before I order one would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:49 PM
bigmac bigmac is offline
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The way I use Perfect Pass, I accelerate by hand as fast or as slow as I want, right up until it beeps, then I immediately back off the throttle just a hair. It then settles into the set speed quite quickly. As we were learning to use it, there was a tendency to push it up to too high a speed in which case it did take longer to settle down to the set speed. The key is to know when to back off the throttle so PP hunts for the set speed as little as possible.

I'm not sure what you mean by PP taking to long to get to 23 mph. It's actually you that has to get it to 23 and it should do that in exactly the same way as when Perfect Pass is turned off. PP isn't engaged until you hear it beep. If you mean that the throttle reacts differently to your input when PP is engaged, then likely your unit isn't adjusted right. I'd do the auto-tighten protocol mentioned in the instructions, and make sure there is no gap between the cable housing and where it attaches to the throttle arm on the EFI body.
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Old 08-12-2007, 07:46 PM
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A new prop can help a little, but the problem(s) you are experiencing seem like something way other than that. Sounds like the values of your KDW NN settings are off.

How familiar are you with the PP system and what version do you have?

I would first start by checking the paddle wheel for debris and alignment as well as the linkage up top by the throttle to make sure it is moving smoothly. I would then do a sytem reset. It's ben known to happen that the computer jus has a lapse every now and then Has the boat had this problem as long as you have had it? Is it somethig that just happened? The KDW and NN values are also a major contributor to how smooth it operates and those are key to have correct. It's an adjustment that is a pain in the arse to dial in, but onc it is there it's worth it's weight in gold and is a marriage/relationship saver for sure.

Lets see where your KDW and NN values are at before you do the sytem reset and go from there. Should be ableo be fixed without having to drop more $$ on a prop...though that prop isn't necessarily the best prop for that boat used only for boarding so I would consider an upgrade to a newer super wake prop for the best performance out of that boat, but again I don't think that is you problem here.

Also as bigmac stated if you pass the speed what happens is the perfect pass engages an then realizes it's to far past so adjusts to compensate. Then as it adjusts back to the low speed when you pass the desired speed by too much it goes to low and then tries to catch up on the way back to get back to speed and it kind of searches for a bit before it settles. Very common problem. Alo has alot to do with the kdw and nn values
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Last edited by swatguy; 08-12-2007 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:20 PM
bigmac bigmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dh_bennison
I went out fo my first proper day in my 04 X10 today. The only problem we had was the boat took ages to get to 23mph when the Perfect Pass was on. Also initally it would accelaerate upto about 26 / 27 before dropping back to 23mph. Once it had dropped back to 23mph it struggled to hold the speed when we put ballast in, it seemed like the engine could not keep up with the adjustments the Perfect Pass was making. Im thinking that most of this is down to the current prop which is a 14 x 19.5 but would like some confirmation from you guys.

Also if I switch to a Acme 845 13.5 x 16 I know my hole shot will improve but will it help the boat to hold its speed better????? I am thinking that this prop would help the engine to react more quickly.

Im in the UK and have to order props from the US so any opinions before I order one would be appreciated.

Thanks
I use an Acme 847 13.5 x 17.5. Bill Weeks at ACME recommended that to me and it has been a great prop. Big hole shot, top speed is just at 50 mph. I would think that an 845 13.5 x 16 would be underpropped on your boat - on my '04 230VRS, WOT is just right at max RPM. Before buying one, I would sure give Bill a call. Alternatively, he will answer your emails too...

I don't think your problems are with your Perfect Pass, though. My buddy has a 2004 X-10 with the stock OJ prop and his PP works perfectly at wakeboard speeds. Make sure you try it in both RPM mode and wakeboard (speed) mode. IOW, how does it work with the paddlewheel out of the equation?
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Last edited by bigmac; 08-12-2007 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:04 AM
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dh_bennison dh_bennison is offline
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Thanks for all the advise. The PP holds the revs fine when its on RPM. We have it set at about 3000rpm which when its up and going equates to about 21mph. However when the PP first takes over and beeps at 3000 rpm we are only doing about 12 -14mph. It takes ages to get to 21mph.

I am going to check the paddle wheel tonight. I know this is a stupid question but where is the paddle wheel??
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:49 AM
bigmac bigmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dh_bennison
Thanks for all the advise. The PP holds the revs fine when its on RPM. We have it set at about 3000rpm which when its up and going equates to about 21mph. However when the PP first takes over and beeps at 3000 rpm we are only doing about 12 -14mph. It takes ages to get to 21mph.

I am going to check the paddle wheel tonight. I know this is a stupid question but where is the paddle wheel??
On your X-10, I think there's an access port in the middle of the floor that gives access to the center bilge (there is in my 230 - I think it's the same on the X-10). In there are a couple of wiring harnesses, the center garboard T-handle drain, the front of the fuel tank, and on the left toward the front should be the paddlewheel. It will have an arrow on the top part, which should be pointing exactly forward. You can unscrew the locking ring and it should lift right out (don't do this while it's in the water... ). Make sure the wheel spins freely. Do check the calibration of the speedometer, as well as making sure the servo cable isn't binding (nice gentle curve to the throttle arm) and that there's no gap where it attaches to the throttle arm. Do you have the owner's manual? It does have troubleshooting information - look at this manual for more info.

Also, Perfect Pass is very helpful if you call them on the phone.


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Last edited by bigmac; 08-13-2007 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:56 AM
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dh_bennison dh_bennison is offline
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Thanks I will check it this evening.

When I have got the PP set up correctly how much difference would a lower pitch prop make with regard to my inital acceleration upto to 21mph / 3000rpm
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  #8  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:12 AM
bigmac bigmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dh_bennison
Thanks I will check it this evening.

When I have got the PP set up correctly how much difference would a lower pitch prop make with regard to my inital acceleration upto to 21mph / 3000rpm
I wouldn't think it would make any difference relative to Perfect Pass. PP only works by the servo controlling the throttle instead of your hand.

I agree with swatguy, though...it might be helpful to look at the KDW settings. Factory setting is 60, but heavily loaded boats might need more aggressive control input and you might find you want a KDW setting of 100-150. Likewise, make sure the NN setting is in reasonable range - PP says it should be somewhere between 120-160. You might consider doing a system reset after you perform the linkage test and the servo motor test specified in the manual, then adjust the KDW upward as necessary. Some of your problem might be technique - I don't understand why you'd be relying on PP to accelerate you up to 23 mph. On my boat, the system doesn't beep until the boat actually hits the target speed or target RPM, so I acclerate by hand to that speed or RPM (depending on mode I'm using - RPM or speed). As soon as the boat hits the target, it beeps, and I back off the throttle a little so it doesn't go too far past the target, then the boat settles back down to the set speed/RPM.
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Old 08-13-2007, 08:46 AM
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dh_bennison dh_bennison is offline
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Sorry it may be down to my poor explanation. My last question about the prop was just to do with general acceleration before the PP kicks in.

Forget the PP for a moment lets assume its turned off. Will a smaller pitch prop help me to get to 23mph alot quicker than the current 14 x 19.5

Sorry to keep asking dumb questions, I just want to make sure I order the right thing!
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Old 08-13-2007, 09:39 AM
bigmac bigmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dh_bennison
Sorry it may be down to my poor explanation. My last question about the prop was just to do with general acceleration before the PP kicks in.

Forget the PP for a moment lets assume its turned off. Will a smaller pitch prop help me to get to 23mph alot quicker than the current 14 x 19.5

Sorry to keep asking dumb questions, I just want to make sure I order the right thing!
It probably would help, but you have to worry about exceeding the max WOT RPMs if you run a prop with too low a pitch. The stock prop that came on that is a 14x18. I think that 14x19.5 is likely too much prop. OTOH, I don't think 13.5 x 16 is likely to be enough prop.

I would never order a prop without first talking directly to either Eric at OJ or Bill Weeks at Acme. Those guys are really smart.
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