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Old 02-23-2005, 01:02 AM
Star92 Star92 is offline
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Unhappy Engine Dies, Won't idle.

Hello everyone, I have a 92 prostar 190 which I purchased a few years ago. When I purchased the boat, it was very cold natured. I adjusted the choke and have seemed to have fixed that problem. On July 4th of 03, I was out at the lake, I had put about 50 hours on the boat by then (total of 550). Idling around waiting for the fireworks, the boat shuts off. Turn the key, no start. Pump the throttle, boat starts, shuts back off. The boat would crank and run above 2000 rpm, but anything less, it would die. Got it back on trailer, next morning I pulled the carb, expecting to find some trash or water. Looked great no problem found. Boat gave no more trouble next time out. Went to Lake Martin in Alabama for a week. After the third day, same thing happens again. Went to MC dealer, replaced plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor button, fuel filter, and cleaned carb.. Next day runs great for about 3 hours of skiing, then same thing. So I tried an old "California Carb Cleaning" (take off the breather, crank motor, rev up, and then throw a towel over the carb until the engine almost dies). Everything is back to normal for about another hour and then well you know. Took the boat to the dock, tied it up for the rest of the day. Ran the boat the rest of the week with no problems. This problem has been occuring on and off since then. I have tried everything. I had a mechanic check out the carb and he found no problems. It usually occurs after cruising and then pulling back on the throttle, it will idle for a minute then shut off. The boat idles around 800 rpms when its running good. The boat accellerates very good without any hesitation. It runs like a new boat 95 percent of the time. Sorry about the long story, but sometimes it helps to paint a picture. Any help would be appreciated. Could it be something other than carb.??
Thanks,
Jay
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Old 02-23-2005, 07:58 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Look at the fuel pickup tube in the tank, make sure the fuel shut-off is in the open position, the check valve is clear, the fuel/water separator is clean and has no water in it, the fuel pump isn't leaking and if there's a screen in the carb, make sure it's clean.

800 RPM is too high and if you're putting it in gear above this, the transmission won't last too long. Take a fuel sample. You may have debris or water in the tank, but it only has a problem after the water gets into the chamber where the fuel pickup is located. I would slide the tank out ar the rear and remove the plate on top so I could look in. If the tank has a lot of gas in it, you may want to siphon or pump most of it out, but put it in clean containers.

How many hours/year do you run the boat? Maybe you could list what is done to winterize it when you're done for the season.
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Old 02-23-2005, 10:28 AM
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loeweb loeweb is offline
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I think there is another thread on here about this problem as well. Also I have been in a 93 205 that does just about the same thing. It runs and pulls great. once it gets warmed up though it seems as though it dies after a stop, almost like it is flooding out.
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:09 AM
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east tx skier east tx skier is offline
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Me: Hello, my name is East TX Skier, and I had an early 90s MC with hotstall issues.
Group: Hello East TX Skier.

While I'm no mechanic, I've solved a similar problem with my boat thanks to input from others with these problems. In the early 90s (91-93 I believe), MC went from the Holley 4160 single feed carb to the dual feed Holley 4010 "fishbowl" carb on its boats sporting the 351 HO. The 4010 was heat sensitive and, if my memory of my boat mechanic's explanation serves, when coming off plane to idle, tended to have a bit of fuel slosh back down the venturies (please forgive my ignorance if this doesn't make sense). As a result, when you'd come to idle (and shut down), you couldn't start easily without pumping fuel. When you did restart, if you were up to operating temp, sputtering and stalling was a problem.

Correct Craft was using these same carbs at the time, and as a result of the complaints, recalled them and retrofitted the 4160 carb. Indmar said that there was no problem and so, twelve years later, many people (often new MC owners of older boats) get to deal with it.

Last year, after a professional rebuild failed to solve the hot stall issues with the 4010, based on a friend's experience with the same, I replaced it with a 4160 purchased through skidim.com. The problem is 100% solved and the boat runs like a champ.

The 4010 has a "right now" responsiveness that the driver won't feel quite so much from the 4160. However, the skier won't notice the difference and that's what counts in my opinion. If you're the kind of person who can work on carbs, you might be able to make the 4010 behave. I'm of the opinion that life is too short to mess with such nonsense that should've been corrected by you know who at no charge long ago. I'm a much happier person (as is my wife/driver) now that we've thrown money at this problem and made it go away.

In sum, don't rebuild it. Replace it and leave the problem in your wake.
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Last edited by east tx skier; 03-03-2005 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:02 PM
Star92 Star92 is offline
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Thanks for all of the advice. As far as the idle situation goes, how much drop in rpm should you have upon gear engagement. It seems like when I idled it down lower than that, it idled very poorly, and would shut off when engaged. To answer the question about winterization. I put stabil in the tank, and pull it out of the garage about once a month and crank it on the hose. The boat is in near mint condition, the previous owner spent alot of time maintaining the boat, and I have tried to do the same. I only run the boat about 50 hrs a summer, that may be alot, but I change the fluids and filters at each 50 interval. Will I see a loss of performance with the 4160 carb you mentioned.
Thanks for the help.
Jay
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2005, 09:52 PM
Storm861triple Storm861triple is offline
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I think your problem is related directly to your idle circuit in your carb.

You said,
"Pump the throttle, boat starts, shuts back off. The boat would crank and run above 2000 rpm, but anything less, it would die"

That is VERY symptomatic of a LEAN mix on the idle circuits. Actually no fuel flow. You pumped the throttle and by doing that the accelerator pump put a shot or two of fuel into the motor, then it fired. Then it died because there was no fuel there after it burned up the pump shot, to keep it going. When you run it above 2000 RPM, your onto the main circuit by that time, and the idle circuits are out of the picture. The fact that it runs w/a pump shot, and anything above 2k tells me that you've got no problem w/fuel delivery to the carb. Your carb has a problem delivering fuel at idle. After all this I'll (finally) get to what I think the cause is.

I think it's either debris moving in and out of your idle circuits, or damaged idle circuits.

I know you said the carb has been cleaned, but to what extent? Did someone literally blow air or liquid though the tiny idle passages, emulsion tubes and air bleeds? What do the idles mixture screw needles look like? Some times people turn those all the way in and bottom them too tight, putting a groove in the needle. When this happens the needle does a poor job of metering the fuel and is very inconsistent. Something to check that's easy to check. If it were my boat, I'd take that primary metering plate out and go through every single passage w/and air chuck, or "Brake Cleaner" etc., check the needles, and re-assmeble and try again.
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Last edited by Storm861triple; 02-23-2005 at 09:57 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2005, 06:43 PM
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bret bret is offline
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Just another thought: A member of our club had a similar issue last year with his 94 205; same issues with when it was hot, it would just shut down. It would refire after about an hour and then it might or might not do it the rest of the day. His cap and rotor were in very POOR condition. He changed them, along with a new coil, and the boat never missed a beat the rest of the summer and fall.
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Old 02-28-2005, 06:54 PM
Bongo Bongo is offline
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I second bret's notion. My '89 190 had the same problem bret described. When the boat was cold, it'd start right up and off we went. On rare occasions and after the boat had been run for a while, it'd sputter and stop. Let it set for a while (> 1 hour) and off we'd go again. Very intermittent, though, when we'd have problems.

It seemed to me to be a fuel problem, so I check everything I could with the carb, emptied water seperator, changed fuel filter, etc. A while later, same thing.

Finally went after the points, cap and rotor. Problem solved.

Bongo
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Old 02-28-2005, 07:05 PM
Lance Lance is offline
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Boat: 1987 Prostar 190 PowerSlot, 2004 22' Bennington Pontoon 90 HP Mercury 4-stroke
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A guy on a tractor forum that I monitor always says, "if it feels like a fuel problem check the ignition, if it feels like an ignition problem check the carburetor"... his general message is that once you have checked the basics on one side (fuel or ignition) do the same for the other before you go too far down the same path (i.e. a whole carb rebuild or replacement before spending the $15 on ignition in this case). Probably not a solution but at least food for thought.
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Old 02-28-2005, 10:34 PM
Storm861triple Storm861triple is offline
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If you guys read his post, you'll see that he replaced the cap rotor, plugs and wires and the problem persisted.

I still say start w/the carb, clean it yourself and verify that EVERY passage is clear in the metering block, and that the idle screw needles are in good shape. This costs nothing, and the symptoms and history point to this area, not new caps and rotors.
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