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  #2261  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by flashydubber View Post
Braking power is a measure of disc size, size of calipers and clamping force... you lost me here... physics....
Of course it's physics... are you saying you think that the brake performance on your VW is the same when trailering your boat? Again, the brakes on the VW and Porsche were put on them to help stop from high speeds quickly, not while trailering a 5K load. Features like intergrated brake assist have been built into some of the domestics to help improve the brake performance. I can't find the article I read recently, but the performance of the Chev and Ford truck brakes were nearly unchanged when trailering 5K from not trailering.

My point is, when trailering loads, brake performance is less than normal. I believe that the amount of brake performance loss would be enough on the VW and Porsche to negate the 40' average that the VW had without trailering.
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  #2262  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott023 View Post
Of course it's physics... are you saying you think that the brake performance on your VW is the same when trailering your boat? Again, the brakes on the VW and Porsche were put on them to help stop from high speeds quickly, not while trailering a 5K load. Features like intergrated brake assist have been built into some of the domestics to help improve the brake performance. I can't find the article I read recently, but the performance of the Chev and Ford truck brakes were nearly unchanged when trailering 5K from not trailering.

My point is, when trailering loads, brake performance is less than normal. I believe that the amount of brake performance loss would be enough on the VW and Porsche to negate the 40' average that the VW had without trailering.
I can tell you right now the performance of breaks isn't the same. You take away trailer breaks and that VW or any Med Sized SUV will get shoved... It will stop it but I wouldn't think it would hold up in an emergency situation. If it doesn't I doubt the breaks would be good for a second chance. I don't have breaks on my 2500 and it does fine... but I wouldn't do the same on a half ton, my old Z71 1500 didn't stop near as well with not trailer breaks.
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  #2263  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:17 PM
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I think the point Scott is trying to make is the brake design on the German performance SUV's is designed for high performance driving (around a race track/street performance) versus big American SUV brakes are designed to bring heavy trailers to a stop. The brakes are large on the German SUV's but the pad material is much different than what you will find on a heavy SUV. When I shop for brake pads for my BMW they are much different material than what I see for my heavy duty truck. I just don't believe the German SUV pads are designed and won't work as well if they have to stop a heavy boat versus the American SUV brake pads.

I am also old school and just don't see the reason to buy a SUV/truck and then tow a boat or trailer at or over in some cases of it's maximum trailer capacity. It doesn't make safety sense to me or for long term durability of the rig. I will probably always buy more tow rig than I need just in case the day comes that I need a long wheel base with extra towing capacity rig. Actually the day has already come and I am glad I had lots more tow rig than I needed and was able to bring the truck and MC back safely on the freeway after swerving off the freeway (sloped shoulder down into a ditch with loose dirt and debris) without loosing control of the boat, the loooong wheel base truck was able to easily control the sway of the boat. Those smaller SUV's just cause me to worry if you ever have to make that type of emergency move.
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Last edited by Forrest-X45; 01-25-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thatsmrmastercraft View Post
Pulling big boats with little SUV's is fine until your trailer brakes fail.
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Originally Posted by TayMC190 View Post
I can tell you right now the performance of breaks isn't the same. You take away trailer breaks and that VW or any Med Sized SUV will get shoved... It will stop it but I wouldn't think it would hold up in an emergency situation. If it doesn't I doubt the breaks would be good for a second chance. I don't have breaks on my 2500 and it does fine... but I wouldn't do the same on a half ton, my old Z71 1500 didn't stop near as well with not trailer breaks.
This argument is pretty irrational!

In ANY towing situation, when your equipment fails, poop hits the fan.

Whether it is a Chevy Dually pulling a 15,000# 5'er or a Tahoe pulling an X-25, without trailer brakes, stopping is not going to be as quick as if it was unloaded.

Basically, what I am getting at is if I have a 2500HD and tow a 5th Wheel that is at the brink of the truck's towing capacity, would I be getting the flack that you are giving this poor guy?



Wait here, I need to go pick-up my new Sport Chassis to tow my 197...

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  #2265  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sodar View Post


Wait here, I need to go pick-up my new Sport Chassis to tow my 197...

that's what I'm talking about.
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  #2266  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodar View Post
Basically, what I am getting at is if I have a 2500HD and tow a 5th Wheel that is at the brink of the truck's towing capacity, would I be getting the flack that you are giving this poor guy?
Most likely....I see it all the time with guys on the HD diesel and RV forums. Guys get all kinds of crap for towing big 5'er toy haulers with 3/4 tons. You can tow it just fine but what happens if you need to stop suddenly or swerve to miss something in the road? How is that short bed 3/4 gonna handle that 15,000+ pound 5'er? Same with a short wheel base SUV's towing at over their maximum towing capacity.......

Just my two cents......
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  #2267  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by scott023 View Post
that's what I'm talking about.
Word..brother!

I had my eye on a built up Chevy Kodiak for a while. Boy would that have been overkill tow rig.
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  #2268  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Forrest-X45 View Post
Word..brother!

I had my eye on a built up Chevy Kodiak for a while. Boy would that have been overkill tow rig.
The suspensions on the Kodiaks SUCK!

The FL's air ride is sooooooo much better.
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  #2269  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Forrest-X45 View Post
Word..brother!

I had my eye on a built up Chevy Kodiak for a while. Boy would that have been overkill tow rig.
Was it at Destination Motorsports?
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  #2270  
Old 01-25-2011, 01:00 PM
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So a couple years ago, my brother in law was working around his house with some heavyish equipment. His place sits high on a hill. The driveway is treacherous steep, end of a culdasack, the street it dumps onto is a moderate but significant hill that runs about 50 yards before coming to a t in the road.

He just finished up with a little bulldozing on the little john deer that my dad's had for decades. He goes to load it on the machinery trailer hitched to the back of my dad's truck (an old Chevy 2wd). The truck is pointed down the driveway (100 yd sled run).

He picks up The blade to clear the ramps on the trailer, somewhat obscuring his view. Set the tracks up so that they would match the ramps, and moves it up onto the back. As the weight transitions onto the ramps, it begins to place an upward pressure on the hitch. he doesn't see the back of the truck begin to lift.

As the bulldozer climbs to the top of the ramps the weight of the machine continues to raise the rear of the truck until it reaches the point that the bulldozer rolls forward onto the back of the trailer (well behind the trailer axles). Typically, this transition (from ramp to trailer) makes a crap load of noise. It is, after all, basically smashing down onto the front of the bulldozer treads.... Heck, can you imagine the leverage that thing puts on the trailer hitch?

The back of the truck lifted clear from the ground (which in a flat environment is no big deal). This time it kinda became a big deal.

Not considering the outcome, he had parked the truck facing down the driveway, down the hill, by just putting it in "park". Parking brake? Nope.

The bulldozer was now solidly placed on the rear or the trailer. The trailer is tilted aggressively upward (because, remember, the weight is not yet to the axles. The truck is pointed downhill, and the tires that were locked by the transmission lift smoothly off the driveway. He can't see much (remember the blade is up), but he could feel it start to move. He steps down on the clutch because movement is scary and the gut reaction is to STOP whatever you're doing that is causing this change (but it's too late).

The bulldozer stops on the back of the trailer, but it's the only tying that stops. The whole rig takes off down the hill. Truck tilted down, back lifted up. Trailer tilted up, bulldozer on the back. Ramps lifted slightly as they screech and spark dragging down the hill....

My brother in law still sitting on the top of all of this, in the back...way up high, where now he can see where things are going. Again, sled ride.

He figures it probably got up to thirty before the truck jackknifed and things stopped rolling. I'm betting it was closer to ten or fifteen, but I'm sure it felt like a hundred. They say that god looks out for children and idiots. He's no child....nobody got hurt. The truck got a little hosed though.

Last edited by Justjoe; 01-25-2011 at 01:32 PM.
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