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Old 08-01-2004, 11:13 PM
tonlok
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2000 XStar GTR 5.7 will not start

I have a 2000 XStar that I just got. I ran it about 7hrs this weekend and just before I got it out of the water I couldn't start it. It has a 5.7 GTR engine. The check engine light is on when I switch on the key. I don't think it has anything to do with the saftey switch. If I remove the clip the power goes away. The fuel pump runs. The water temp was reading 160 degrees. I don't hear the injectors firing and I don't have any spark. It seems as if the ECM is shutting everything down. Does anyone know how to interrogate engine codes or if they are even availible? If so where can I get them from and any suggestions for solving this issue. Thanks,
T.
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Old 08-02-2004, 06:09 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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By any chance, did you visually check the tank to see if you were out of gas? The check engine light is supposed to go on when you turn the key ON. It then goes out when the motor starts. Did you actually check for spark? Don't just pull a plug wire and hold it away from the plug- this ignition system puts out well over 50K volts.

If you do have gas in the tank, turn the key ON and listen for the fuel pump to go on for 2 seconds. This is a priming cycle to build up pressure in the lines. If this is not happening, look on the motor for 3 relays. One will be for the fuel pump. There are also 3 fuse holders in the same area. Check these, too. If you have a fuel pressure gauge, check that and look for it to be around 35-40 pounds at key up.

Get any info from the dealer or person you bought it from, and call MC, give them the hull ID # so they can let you know if it had any recall or warranty work done on it. If you bought it from a dealer, call them and see if they'll cover you on this since you have only put 7 hours on it. They should have done a thorough inspection of the boat if it was a trade-in and documented everything they saw or any data they acquired, such as hooking it to their diagnostic computer, measuring fuel pressure, changing fluids, test drive, etc. Also, look into the motor area for the ECM at the front of the motor. There should be a metal cover above it. Disconnect the battery (-), remove the cover(if it has one) and then remove the large harness plugs from the ECM. Look into the receptical on the ECM for any corroded or missing pins or any green powdery residue in this area. If you see either, you may have a recall issue that wasn't resolved by a dealer.

Most codes would indicate a bad sensor or overheat, which wouldn't necessarily cause it to not fire. The only sensors on an LTR motor that would give you a 'cranks but won't start' situation would be the crank sensor(s), and they won't interrupt the fuel pump priming cycle at key ON. The TPS, MAP, knock sensor and coolant temperature sensor could be bad and it will still run. It may not run well, but it will run. If you have a scan tool, you can read the codes by plugging it into the data link connector at the rear of the motor.

If you bought this boat privately, call them and ask when it ran out of gas, not if. Asking 'if' gives them a chance to tell you that it didn't, even if it did, and I have found that asking 'when' often makes them feel a bit more compelled to tell the truth. There have been issues with the fuel tank senders on these(and most brands) of boats and I suspect you may have a bad one.

Last edited by JimN; 08-02-2004 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:21 PM
tonlok
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Some more information as to what I have tested so far. I can visually see that I have almost a full tank of fuel and when I turn on the key I can feel the fuel pump running and it actually gets a little cooler like there is flow. I will have to look at the actual fuel pressure though. I haven't done that yet. To check for spark I pulled a spark plug wire and put a phillips screwdriver in it and held it close to the engine and then to the engine mount while turning over the engine and had no spark there. Do you know if the ECM test plug can be jumpered and read the codes from it like a car engine? If so can the ECM detect a bad crank sensor or does it see it as a normal no crank condition? Can I connect a scope to the crank detector and measure a output. I am thinking it is a voltage that is induced at the gear sector passes by the detector that is a coil or magnetic device? Is there a way to test the ECM and second is it a standard automotive ECM or is it a specific Marine type. Also I held a screwdriver on one of the injectors as the engine was turning and didn't hear them injecting. So it seems as if it is not allowing fuel or spark. This test was just after getting the boat into my garage for the first time which was by no means an easy task so I will be double checking myself tonight when I get home from work. Thanks for all your input and any additional that you may have would be greatly appriciated.
Tony
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Old 08-02-2004, 07:46 PM
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This ECM is marine/commercial/crate engine specific. Originally for marine, though. The codes can be read, as I said before, with a code reader, or by jumping the A and B terminals on the DLC. The letters are really tiny, but one is white w/black tracer and the other is black. They're next to each other.

The ECM won't indicate bad crank sensors/corroded terminals/reversed harnesses other than not firing. If you have a multi meter, look for 1-2 V on the DC scale, on the purple/white wire going to the ignition control module, under the coil packs. If you use a scope, look for an irregular square wave on the same wire.

Don't use a screw driver to test spark, use a plug and/or spark tester, grounded to the motor.

How far away is a dealer? If it was mine, I would want it hooked up to the diagnostic computer and get a written copy or printout of the data, just to know as a basis. There are specific tools the dealers are supposed to have in their service tools inventory in order to be authorized, but if they have CrownLine, their techs can service these, too. They're not too different from the Mercruiser or Volvo Penta motors. Mercruiser changed to the Motorola ECM awhile back, but I don't know if they still use them.
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Old 08-02-2004, 11:16 PM
tonlok
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The problem that I have with the dealer is the person I bought the boat from had this same issue repaired in aug. of 03. I have the paperwork and it doesn't make sense what they did to fix it just a lot of money. Tonight when I got home it fired right up. So it is the worst kind of a problem to chase. Intermitent one's are a major pain to resolve. I am trying to get the manual for the motor so I can diagnose the problem myself. It will make me feel better when I know for sure that I have the problem identified and can reproduce it. Nothing worse than being out on the lake not running. The manual should identify what would prevent both spark and fuel to be stopped at the same time. The ECM seems like the most likely culprit so I will start there. It seems to me to be a component and not wiring as it fired after sitting for an evening. I have a dealer looking for the manual so I can buy it. Does anyone have any leads on a book that Covers the LTR 330hp engine in a 2000 Xstar? Thanks,
T.
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:22 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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I have the manual and will look at the flow chart for this problem, but we've already covered most of it. List what the dealer did last year and what you have done so far. If the dealer repaired any connections and it still does this, I would look at all of the grounds, battery terminals, starter connections, harnesses, etc. I would exhaust all other possibilities before getting a new ECM. Remove and check all of the connectors on the sensors, the ECM and IC module to make sure they are securely in place. Just removing the plugs from the sensors and putting them back on will obviously affect the quality of the contact. Sometimes the terminals in the plugs are too loose to make good contact and that can lead to this type of problem, so look at them to see if they appear to be too loose.

Where are you located?
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2004, 11:03 AM
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mplinski mplinski is offline
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Boat: Mastercraft Prostar 190 2001 LTR 330HP Power Slot
Location: Washougal, WA
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Cool

I had a similar problem on my 2001 PS 190 w/ LTR, and I traced it down to a loose connection on the fuel pump. You might want to disconnect and reconnect the fittings.
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