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  #21  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:02 PM
Roman Roman is offline
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Boat: 1991 Maristar 240 Open Bow w/ 454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mertens777 View Post
Roman -

Not that I'm into busting emission regulations, but don't marine engine manufacturers follow EPA emission standards on their engines as well? If so, there is room for tuning, correct? AGAIN, I'm not advocating potentially hurting the environment with emissions, just questioning your response that these motors are treated differently.

Thanks
They do have emissions requirements to meet, but they are not on the same level as automotive of the same era. Your boat probably doesn't even have EGR. Also, in a maneuver such as a WOT takeoff like you are doing, fully ballasted, the EPA allows you to exceed your emissions, so long as its declared which it probably is. It comes down to component protection. You dont want the user to damage the engine.

One thing any Tooner will probably not tell you, is when you get something tooned you are removing much of the onboard diagnostics.
So when the vehicle was tooned, lets say you had a couple codes being thrown for whatever reason, they delete them so they dont pop up and do whatever they are suppose to trigger (anything from engine de-rates, to forcing a sensor to run x value, or last known good value, or trigger other fault reactions). A good example I can think of right now is lets say the tooner is trying to get more fuel by commanding a higher fuel pressure. Well the high fuel pressure might be tripping the fuel rail sensor, so they remove that code. Now, if you ever have a fault with either the fuel pump, or fuel sensor you wont detect it. Or they offset the coolant temp to trick the engine into extra fueling, they will have to shut off thermostat codes because the computer thinks the thermostat is broken. You are losing that ability to diagnose bad parts.
EPA is actually really big on the OBD and making sure manufactures report errors properly so the customer isn't being screwed around, because then you could come into a case where only the manufacturer can fix the damn thing. Its not just environmental concerns. Although many thresholds for a failed part are derived from the point where a failing part causes us to exceed emmissions. Thats why so many people say "well why is my check engine light on but my car runs fine". There is a big window where things run fine. The emissions window is much smaller and that is what we are governed too. Some sensors dont fail instantly, but may drift over time and become unreliable. So with many toonerz you actually lose much of the diagnostics side of things, which is a huge pain when it comes to trouble shooting. Noone mentions that.

So in the case of your engine, while Im not totally familiar with a marine application like this, The EPA wants to make sure that during times of say steady cruising, and then certain tip in an out maneuvers you arnt doing something stupid. Then they also want the manufacture to submit data showing tests were performed to show thresholds were derived for your on board diagnostics and that they function correctly so the consumer is safe and not being taken advantage of. A maneuver like you are performing, the manufacturer will submit a "clause for deviation" or something similar saying "hey listen, a WOT maneuver past x seconds requires us to exceed emissions due to additional fueling for component protection and the fact that the user is requesting all available power".

This is what Ram got in trouble for recently with the baby diesel for not disclosing all the situations where they cant meet emissions. EPA kind of understands you cant meet emissions all the time, but they want to know when.

I went on a long ramble there........


edit
Acme recommended a 13x12 for me. A 24 foot boat with 1500lbs ballast plus a crew of 6. The famous 541. sure its great but it isnt great for everything and everyone. I needed at-least a 13x11 Sounds like you are in the same boat, they recommended a great prop that works 80% of the time but you are the 20%.
I would love an x-star but my skill set is not limited by boat, so she is staying.

edit-edit
I know a bit about marine calibration because a fellow coworker did a bunch of marine work for a couple years in the late 90's nad early 2000's and told me the differences between auto and marine. Probably doesn't apply anymore as the EPA is tighting down the marine industry now, but its probably much looser than the auto still.

Last edited by Roman; 02-07-2018 at 01:58 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:05 PM
mertens777 mertens777 is offline
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Nice!! thank you
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:15 PM
waterlogged882 waterlogged882 is offline
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If it isn't broken, don't fix it. No drag boat here ya' know....

.
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  #24  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:21 PM
mertens777 mertens777 is offline
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Originally Posted by waterlogged882 View Post
If it isn't broken, don't fix it. No drag boat here ya' know....

.

it is broke, no plane with full ballast Again, probably a reason this boat came with a bigger engine choice.
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  #25  
Old 02-07-2018, 03:52 PM
waterlogged882 waterlogged882 is offline
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Originally Posted by mertens777 View Post
it is broke, no plane with full ballast Again, probably a reason this boat came with a bigger engine choice.
Fix it!

I am just a believer in a stock engine for most purposes.

best luck.
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  #26  
Old 02-07-2018, 04:11 PM
mertens777 mertens777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterlogged882 View Post
Fix it!

I am just a believer in a stock engine for most purposes.

best luck.
Alright you talked me into it, Iíll start looking for an 8.1
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2018, 05:41 PM
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clrussell clrussell is offline
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My 6.0 handles 4K ballast plus people with zero issue. Running a 15x13. Last x star I ran a 15x12 and it would tear your arms off with 3k ballast
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2018, 05:46 PM
waterlogged882 waterlogged882 is offline
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Originally Posted by mertens777 View Post
Alright you talked me into it, Iíll start looking for an 8.1
Like the other SMEs here have suggested... find a prop to drag you around better....

Or an 8.1....

.
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:26 PM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith2230 View Post
Their sales pitch says it's saves fuel, which I assume means they're going to run the engine lean but then says it tells the ECU the intake air is much cooler causing it to run rich. Their marketing sounds like snake oil regardless of what their product actually does.

Is the stock EFI programming on these engines really bad enough that it's worth messing around? I'm guessing unlikely but there are others on the forum much more knowledgeable than I. Personally unless I modified the engine from stock I would expect there wouldn't be much to gain. I identify with Aric's concern especially if they try to run the engine lean. Saving fuel and getting more power is awesome until you end up with burnt valves.
Is this made for boats, or cars/trucks? If it's not for boats, I wouldn't use it- they probably haven't done the testing for in-cylinder combustion and exhaust gas temperatures, like MC has done in the past.

DO NOT mess with the idle stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The OEM programming isn't bad, it's set up so the engines will survive what people do to them. If you want to go fast, get a go fast boat- this is a ski boat.
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  #30  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:50 PM
mertens777 mertens777 is offline
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Is this made for boats, or cars/trucks? If it's not for boats, I wouldn't use it- they probably haven't done the testing for in-cylinder combustion and exhaust gas temperatures, like MC has done in the past.

DO NOT mess with the idle stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The OEM programming isn't bad, it's set up so the engines will survive what people do to them. If you want to go fast, get a go fast boat- this is a ski boat.

This is NOT for speed it’s for power to get on plane when fully loaded lol. I know it’s not a speed boat!!!!!!!
Item description says for imdmar 5.7. Claims it’s been tested.
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