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  #21  
Old 05-28-2010, 12:06 PM
bkhallpass bkhallpass is offline
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If you have the time and know-how, a project like this would be great for teeenage sons. I've been around boats for all of my 46 years, and I have learned more about their construction, and how they work by tearing one down to a bare hull, than I did in all my previous years of experience. Your son's will get real life experience in carpentry, engine mechanics, upholstery, fiberglass (perhaps) etc. They'll also learn how the ventilation systems, wiring, stearing, tracking fins, etc. are constructed and operate. You may well put more money into the boat than it's worth, but you can't put a dollar value on the learning experience and time spent with your sons.


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Originally Posted by ski_king View Post
Post a picture of the outside of the boat.
That era of boats had a history of getting water trapped in the floor foam. It is a pretty good bet water is trapped in that one. There are some threads on here describing the repair of the floor.
This is a very good point. A lot of people believe that because the stringer system was fiberglass and composites (MC started composite stringers in 83 or 84), there is nothing to worry about below the floor. Not true. If water gets into the flotation foam, the foam will eventually soak it up. It can add several hundred pounds in weight. Also, frequently dryer vent hose was used for the ventilation system. This rots over time. When you take water over the bow, it goes into the vent hose, and then seeps into the foam. Have also seen cases where saturated foam freezes during the winter, expands, and causes floor separation, or cracking in the fiberglass and gelcoat. One last thing to think about if you do the project, if you should have failure where the platform brackets mount to the stern, it is a PITA to repair. You have to remove part of the floor to get to the repairs. A guy named sporty had this issue on this forum. If you are going to pull the floor, you might want to think about leaving the back 6 or eight inches of the flooring out (sealed off of course) so that you can access the transom if necessary. I am currently doing this on my project boat.

I wouldn't pay more than a few hundred dollars at most. I bought my project for 1500 with a tandem trailer, and an engine and transmission in operating condition.

BKH
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2010, 02:21 PM
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83SuperSlot 83SuperSlot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkhallpass View Post
If you have the time and know-how, a project like this would be great for teeenage sons. I've been around boats for all of my 46 years, and I have learned more about their construction, and how they work by tearing one down to a bare hull, than I did in all my previous years of experience. Your son's will get real life experience in carpentry, engine mechanics, upholstery, fiberglass (perhaps) etc. They'll also learn how the ventilation systems, wiring, stearing, tracking fins, etc. are constructed and operate. You may well put more money into the boat than it's worth, but you can't put a dollar value on the learning experience and time spent with your sons.




This is a very good point. A lot of people believe that because the stringer system was fiberglass and composites (MC started composite stringers in 83 or 84), there is nothing to worry about below the floor. Not true. If water gets into the flotation foam, the foam will eventually soak it up. It can add several hundred pounds in weight. Also, frequently dryer vent hose was used for the ventilation system. This rots over time. When you take water over the bow, it goes into the vent hose, and then seeps into the foam. Have also seen cases where saturated foam freezes during the winter, expands, and causes floor separation, or cracking in the fiberglass and gelcoat. One last thing to think about if you do the project, if you should have failure where the platform brackets mount to the stern, it is a PITA to repair. You have to remove part of the floor to get to the repairs. A guy named sporty had this issue on this forum. If you are going to pull the floor, you might want to think about leaving the back 6 or eight inches of the flooring out (sealed off of course) so that you can access the transom if necessary. I am currently doing this on my project boat.

I wouldn't pay more than a few hundred dollars at most. I bought my project for 1500 with a tandem trailer, and an engine and transmission in operating condition.

BKH
LAME, I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!! I saw an old ad for the '83 mastercraft and it said it can't get waterlogged. They even guaenteed that in 15 years it will weigh the same as it did on the show room floor!! Why would the run a plastic duct through the foam? Dumb!

:/
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2010, 03:03 PM
bkhallpass bkhallpass is offline
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83, when they first introduced close cell foam, it was supposed to be the panacea. It was not, turns out that it would absorb water if left to soak in the water for a while. The foam companies have continued to improve the technology.

In fairness, I have not seen the floor removed from an 85 Mastercraft. It is possible that they used PVC or a more durable product for the vent lines under the floor and through the foam, but it is not likely. It was pretty common to use the plastic ducting. Also, since I have not seen the floor off an 85, I cannot be positive where the foam is, or how it was laid in. I do know that a boat sitting with 2 feet of water in it for a couple of years, is very likely to have wet foam and ski king seems to confirm there is a history of water being trapped in boats of that era.

My current project is another brand of boat. I, and many other owners, scratch our heads and asj why the heck did they do that? We repair it better than new. However, when you think about it, even if the designs weren't perfect from the factory, they have held up well, even if abused for more than 25 years. There aren't many things you won't have to rebuild after 25 years of use and abuse.

MC did move to composite stringers in 83 or 84, which was a major move in terms of extending the life of the boat and helping to prevent rot and moisture retention. They were 3 to 10 years ahead of competitors in doing so. It is an innovation for which I give MC a lot of credit.

BKH

BKH

Last edited by bkhallpass; 05-28-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2010, 11:10 PM
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tph tph is offline
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vent duct in foam??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkhallpass View Post
If you have the time and know-how, a project like this would be great for teeenage sons. I've been around boats for all of my 46 years, and I have learned more about their construction, and how they work by tearing one down to a bare hull, than I did in all my previous years of experience. Your son's will get real life experience in carpentry, engine mechanics, upholstery, fiberglass (perhaps) etc. They'll also learn how the ventilation systems, wiring, stearing, tracking fins, etc. are constructed and operate. You may well put more money into the boat than it's worth, but you can't put a dollar value on the learning experience and time spent with your sons.




This is a very good point. A lot of people believe that because the stringer system was fiberglass and composites (MC started composite stringers in 83 or 84), there is nothing to worry about below the floor. Not true. If water gets into the flotation foam, the foam will eventually soak it up. It can add several hundred pounds in weight. Also, frequently dryer vent hose was used for the ventilation system. This rots over time. When you take water over the bow, it goes into the vent hose, and then seeps into the foam. Have also seen cases where saturated foam freezes during the winter, expands, and causes floor separation, or cracking in the fiberglass and gelcoat. One last thing to think about if you do the project, if you should have failure where the platform brackets mount to the stern, it is a PITA to repair. You have to remove part of the floor to get to the repairs. A guy named sporty had this issue on this forum. If you are going to pull the floor, you might want to think about leaving the back 6 or eight inches of the flooring out (sealed off of course) so that you can access the transom if necessary. I am currently doing this on my project boat.

I wouldn't pay more than a few hundred dollars at most. I bought my project for 1500 with a tandem trailer, and an engine and transmission in operating condition.

BKH
I have an '83. The venting runs from the grill on the deck to the bilge through the center of the boat where air is drawn to the rear vent using a blower motor mounted to the stern. There isn't any foam along the route. Were you referring to your Non MC construction?
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  #25  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:27 AM
bkhallpass bkhallpass is offline
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Hey that's good news. I haven't worked on an MC of this era yet, but I suspect I will sooner or later. If there is no foam around the vent hose, that's a really good thing, and was a smart design. It is a big problem on CCs of that vintage. I've seen the floor off of Supra, Supreme and Malibu. I was thinking in my minds eye that the hoses ran through the foam on those, but I dont' have any pictures, and I'm just not sure. All three had a lot of plywood rot issues and wet foam.

Where is the foam laid on your 83MC? Along the outside floors, and under the bow? Nothing in the center?

I would still be very surprised if the foam on this particular boat is not wet. Ski king suggested that water intrusion was sometimes a concern for MCs of the era. But even if not the case, the boat was apparently full of water for a couple of years. Even if completely sealed, water can eventualy permeate polyester fiberglass resin.

Thanks for the information.

BKH

Last edited by bkhallpass; 05-29-2010 at 01:43 AM. Reason: clarity and accuracy
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  #26  
Old 05-29-2010, 12:48 PM
Bookshelf Bookshelf is offline
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Do the newer boats have water retention in their foam also? If not, what is the year when the foam got better?
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:50 PM
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This may help.
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  #28  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:38 PM
bkhallpass bkhallpass is offline
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Ski King, that is helpful. What I can't picture in my mind is the construction around the battery box and the vent hoses. If I am reading 83 Superslot's comments correctly, there is no foam in the area of the batterybox/vent hose area. If so, this would have been a very smart design.

Bookshelf, I can't answer your question. There are a lot of reasons why it is difficult for water to get into the foam on a modern boat. Resins are better, foam is better, fiberglass and composties floors replaced wood, and overall construction is better. They just do a better job of sealing off the foam.

Because Mastercraft went to composite Stringers very early, you just don't read a lot about floor and stringer issues. Even the early boats with wood stringers were well built, and if taken care of you are just now seeing the need for stringer replacement in some cases, and that has been almost 30 years.

I would not be very worried about saturated foam after the implementation of composite stringers unless I knew of a crack somewhere that might be letting water in, or if the boat had been full of water for a long period of time. Even then, I would probably just weigh the boat. If I did not notice an appreciable weight gain, I would assume the foam was in tact.

A friend of mine owns a 98 made by another manufacturer. All composite construction. It was completely sunk in 2001. When weighed, there was no evidence of water saturation in the foam. Repairs were made, and it is still running terrific today. I would expect similar results with MCs construction.

With this project boat, I would probably cut a few holes in the floor and check the foam in a few locations. If dry, it only takes a couple of hours to fiberglass over the holes. If it does happen to be soaked, then at least you know what you are dealing with before your spend money and time installing new carpets, etc.

Sorry for being long winded. I'm facscinated by the construction of competition boats, and really enjoy following the projects of those who will restore the early boats back to their glory.

BKH
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkhallpass View Post
Ski King, that is helpful. What I can't picture in my mind is the construction around the battery box and the vent hoses. If I am reading 83 Superslot's comments correctly, there is no foam in the area of the batterybox/vent hose area. If so, this would have been a very smart design..........
The battery box is located under the observer seat centered in the boat. It extends into the center bilge area. The vent hose goes from the grill on the bow and enters the bilge, just in front of the battery box and ends there. The air flows back trhu the bilge and there is a hose by the transom that extends from the bilge, thru the blower and exits out of the grill on the transom.
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Last edited by ski_king; 05-29-2010 at 02:49 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:48 PM
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Here is an actual photo of an 83 split.
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