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  #61  
Old 11-21-2012, 10:13 AM
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Sullivan Sullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by Forrest-X45 View Post
Just added this little guy to the collection. Sure had to wait awhile for it to come in.

Just added the Crimson Trace laser tonight.
That is a hard gun to find! I've been looking at every gun store I know of trying to find one. I have the M&P .45 and love it!
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  #62  
Old 11-21-2012, 10:36 AM
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OK, this may have more to do with philosophy WRT selling to a first-time gun owner, but I went to a local shop and when asked which caliber(s) I'm interested in, I said "9mm, .40 or .45" because I'm buying for home protection more than CC, but that may come later. His response was that "the .40 adds 10% stopping power and 40% recoil force. Having fired a .44 Mag and .357, I'm not sure this really matters unless I'm going to spend a really large amount of time at the range but I do understand that, under stress, the first shot is the one that counts most and being surprised by the kick would be a bad thing. If I find myself never practicing, it may be better to not have it, rather than spray lead all over the place, IMO.

I know M&P have used 9mm for a long time and that it works, as long as the shots are well-placed. I also know that under stress, accuracy isn't usually very good- look at what the NYC tactical squad did when they hit 9 pedestrians, earlier this year. We had an incident near MKE where an older man was firing a 12ga over the cops and they returned fire- more than 30 rounds and not a single hit. Looks like a bunch of Barney Fifes.

However, I'm not terribly worried at this time, but it's impossible to say for sure than nothing will happen. I was working in my garage a few weeks ago and heard 7-8 shots and it sounded close- I was waiting for something to hit the garage, to be honest. That said, if someone comes to where I am, won't leave and is a legitimate threat, I want to be able to stop them, not make them mad. Already taken defensive gun training and know that it's not a position I want to be in but if it's a case of survival,....

I looked at four on Sunday and have ruled out the Beretta- much more than I want to spend. In order, I'm considering 9mm and .40- the Smith & Wesson M&P, Sig SP2022 and Ruger SR series. I have read very good reviews for all of these, although the Taurus look promising, too. I think the Sig fit my hand best, but the others were comfortable- just a matter of which works best when I try them, really. Last time I fired a 9mm, it bit my hand because either my hand was too high on the grip or the beavertail is closer to the slide than what will work for my big hands.

Am I better off buying a 9mm first and practicing, then buy a larger bore later? The cost of ammunition is a concern, too- .40 is about 35%+ more expensive and since I'll be practicing quite a bit, I don't want to spend too much- money's tight and nothing's free.

What say ye?
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  #63  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:33 AM
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Thrall Thrall is offline
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Jim, if you're practicing alot I'd go 357 unless you're against a revolver. Do you need more than 5 or 6 slugs? If SHTF then maybe. If someone breaks into your house while you're sleeping and you can't hit them with the first 6 rounds, they're gone out the door anyway I'd think.
357 will shoot 38 rounds, great for practice and plinking, cheap ammo. Load the good stuff before you put it in the night stand.
Most 357 are heavier for a CC gun, but I have a little Taurus 357 5 shot, 2" barrel, laser sight grip that is not heavy. I don't CC but I carry it while hunting and it's not cumbersome.

If that's not an option my thoughts are go with the biggest caliber you're comfortable with. Get a 45 and be done with it. If you'r eever in that situation I'd bet you'll have a death grip on the gun and recoil will bethe least of your worries!
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  #64  
Old 11-21-2012, 12:28 PM
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I agree with Thrall about the .357 Magnum wheel gun. If for HD, a 4" barrel would be better IMO. That is if you like wheel guns. Personally, I love them. No handgun is more reliable. Now, a downside, about the only I can see with the .357mag is over penetration. Sometimes, not a good thing in a home. Just use a really good LE round.

with modern Law Enforcement JHP rounds such as the Federal HST or the Winchester Ranger T's you get expansion of .9" +/- in a .40 and 1000fps vs. a .45 with just a tad more expansion at .97-.99" at 850-900fps. I personally am a fan of high velocity and big expansion. It really boils all down to personal preference. A .40 or .45 with a good round and good shot placement, is all equal. Or you can go with a 10mm or .357sig if you want a semi auto. Again, all personal preference. Shot placement and a good round is all that's needed.

My next purchase is going to be a Tactical 18.5" Remington 870 12ga 6+1 shotgun fitted with a surefire light for home defense.

One thing to always remember, there is no such thing as a one shot-drop gun, even a shotgun if it hits the right spot. PCP, meth, etc all induce no pain, extreme strength rage in a person. I have heard from LE friends of a shot to the heart (exploding) and the guy still comes till the brain dies and bleeds out.
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Last edited by DooSPX; 11-21-2012 at 12:51 PM.
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  #65  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:26 PM
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X2M X2M is offline
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Originally Posted by mustangtexas View Post
@X2M, to protect your dog from snake bite the best thing you can do is find a hunting dog club in your area that has a "De-Snaking" event. Pay a small fee and they expose your dog to defanged snakes and when your dog approaches the snake he will be hit by with a shock collar pretty hard. After a couple times your dog will do anything to avoid any kind of snake. Well worth the the time and money. My bird dogs learned real fast to hate snakes.
I have researched those classes and I think they are a great way to get dogs to avoid snakes.

I am on the fence about taking the classes with Tuck. I'm concerned that his tracking/trailing/drive will be screwed up if we take the classes and then come across a snake while working (I don't want him to shut down and not work). This and the rattle snake vaccine have been discussed a lot with other handlers I train with.

Thanks for the advice!
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  #66  
Old 11-21-2012, 04:50 PM
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homer12 homer12 is offline
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DooSPX, is this what you're looking to get? Just got mine last weekend. No light (yet). but ghost ring sight, 6+1, 18.5", and tactical choke. Get to try it out tomorrow.
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  #67  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by homer12 View Post
DooSPX, is this what you're looking to get? Just got mine last weekend. No light (yet). but ghost ring sight, 6+1, 18.5", and tactical choke. Get to try it out tomorrow.
YES! Let me know how you like it please!
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1991 PROSTAR 190 Flagship Blue POWERSLOT OJ XMP CNC 13.7x17.5 .110 4B
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Need a new prop to fit your needs? Call Eric from OJ PROPS 800-359-9730

Quote:
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are stupid, than to open it and prove it"?
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  #68  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrall View Post
Jim, if you're practicing alot I'd go 357 unless you're against a revolver. Do you need more than 5 or 6 slugs? If SHTF then maybe. If someone breaks into your house while you're sleeping and you can't hit them with the first 6 rounds, they're gone out the door anyway I'd think.
357 will shoot 38 rounds, great for practice and plinking, cheap ammo. Load the good stuff before you put it in the night stand.
Most 357 are heavier for a CC gun, but I have a little Taurus 357 5 shot, 2" barrel, laser sight grip that is not heavy. I don't CC but I carry it while hunting and it's not cumbersome.

If that's not an option my thoughts are go with the biggest caliber you're comfortable with. Get a 45 and be done with it. If you'r eever in that situation I'd bet you'll have a death grip on the gun and recoil will bethe least of your worries!
I have thought about a .357, as well- one thing to consider is a string of "What if?" questions- what if the intruder is on drugs that make bullets less effective? I worked in a mall and a shoplifter at Sears had been shooting coke- he just would not stop fighting and even though his head was being rammed into a brick wall and he said "Ow". Meth would probably be worse. If gangs move in before I get a chance to move out, and they're not that far away, I'm gonna need something with more than 5 or 6 rounds. OTOH, a .357 is pretty cheap, so I could start with that and move up later, or vice-versa.

I have shot .22 pistol and rifle, S&W .357 (with .38 wad-cutters), Colt .44 Mag and S&W 9mm and accuracy wasn't much of a problem (I guess all of the practice with my Daisy BB gun wasn't such a waste of time, eh?).
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  #69  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:32 PM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DooSPX View Post
I agree with Thrall about the .357 Magnum wheel gun. If for HD, a 4" barrel would be better IMO. That is if you like wheel guns. Personally, I love them. No handgun is more reliable. Now, a downside, about the only I can see with the .357mag is over penetration. Sometimes, not a good thing in a home. Just use a really good LE round.

with modern Law Enforcement JHP rounds such as the Federal HST or the Winchester Ranger T's you get expansion of .9" +/- in a .40 and 1000fps vs. a .45 with just a tad more expansion at .97-.99" at 850-900fps. I personally am a fan of high velocity and big expansion. It really boils all down to personal preference. A .40 or .45 with a good round and good shot placement, is all equal. Or you can go with a 10mm or .357sig if you want a semi auto. Again, all personal preference. Shot placement and a good round is all that's needed.

My next purchase is going to be a Tactical 18.5" Remington 870 12ga 6+1 shotgun fitted with a surefire light for home defense.

One thing to always remember, there is no such thing as a one shot-drop gun, even a shotgun if it hits the right spot. PCP, meth, etc all induce no pain, extreme strength rage in a person. I have heard from LE friends of a shot to the heart (exploding) and the guy still comes till the brain dies and bleeds out.
One shot drop can happen if I want brains on my walls but you're right about body shots- unless the aorta is hit, it probably won't end with one shot.
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  #70  
Old 11-21-2012, 07:59 PM
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mzito mzito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2RLAKE View Post
i have one of those too ... love shooting it. My wife carries a Sig Sauer P239 SAS with the short release trigger ... that thing shoots awesome!
I carry a P239 40/.357. Best shooting gun I own. I had the trigger and all the "Guts" honed/polished by Bruce Grey at Grey Guns. He does excellent work, I highly recommend his work. He only works on H&K and Sig's. He completely over hulled my wife's H&K SK 2000 9m sub compact. She has Rheumatoid Arthritis and started to have a hard time pulling the DA 12lb pull. he cut it in 1/2 and reduced the SA by a third while shortening the reset. that thing is awesome now!!
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