Go Back   TeamTalk > Maintenance Tips, How-tos and Refurbishing Topics > Ballast

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-05-2018, 04:10 PM
wallos wallos is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Boat: 2018 X20 6000
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 145
X23 gen2 ballast bag connections

Adding bags to my X20 (which doesn't come with factory bags). Want to plumb it like other gen2 boats or X23 that have factory bags. Anyone that can tell me how they are installed at factory please let me know. Do they use check valve for venting or just vent thru bag? Wavemakers does not have any info on any new MCs.

Attached is drawing that I think makes most sense for venting hard tanks with bags. Venting just thru bags sounds like a problem. Is this right?

Sorry for multiple posting but bags are on the way and only have boat out of water fro a few days. Any help is appreciated!
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-2018, 06:35 AM
FourFourty's Avatar
FourFourty FourFourty is offline
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Boat: 2018 XStar that's trying to be a 40th.
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,288
Sorry for the terrible drawing, but are your hard tanks shaped like this, with the vents up top of the towered portion of the tank? Or are the tanks just flat and low in the compartment?
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-2018, 10:47 AM
wallos wallos is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Boat: 2018 X20 6000
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 145
Yes they look like your drawing. So high point of tank won't syphon water from bag? What if bags are only vents? I could situate bag so it can't collapse and cut off venting (I think)

Last edited by wallos; 07-07-2018 at 04:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:33 AM
FourFourty's Avatar
FourFourty FourFourty is offline
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Boat: 2018 XStar that's trying to be a 40th.
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,288
Ok. Plumb it as shown in this work of art......

Sorry about it being upside down.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-07-2018, 03:10 PM
wallos wallos is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Boat: 2018 X20 6000
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 145
Ok that looks good. I see how that works. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2018, 04:29 PM
wallos wallos is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Boat: 2018 X20 6000
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 145
Really appreciate 440 working this out for me. Just got 2 490lb bags from wave makers but now not sure I should install them:

On one hand X20 needs some extra ballast. I currently have 320lb in moveable water bags in back. I would like to have ballast that I add or reduce according to crew weight without having to lug bags around. Also WM bags would allow me to list boat to surf side. My own version of switchback ballast.

More weight I've had in the boat the better it gets. Other X20 owners are pretty united that lots of ballast doesn't help so what I have may already be ideal. I was ok putting more ballast in boat than I would need to be able customize weight.

My problem is I thought I could totally fill tanks and then bags as needed. If bags fill with tanks (as 440 diagram shows) I'm basically taking weight from center and adding to rear of boat which may change wave. This may be fine for a X23 that needs all the ballast but X20 is so sensitive I think it is an unnecessary risk, not to mention a bunch of work in really tight space.

Really happy with my wave as is, just thought it was stupid to have a bunch of 5 gal bags in rear compartments on a new 100K boat. Comments are welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-07-2018, 09:25 PM
XC500mod XC500mod is offline
MC Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Boat: '18 x23, '15 x10
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 653
how much work is it?

you could plumb the bags in and then play with the fill times to get the wave right. maybe you won't want everything filled up, but maybe you'll like some weight over stock. it should help you list the boat with weight over stock. also when the crew is larger have more people sit in the bow and in front of the tower legs and load up the bags and tanks.

i would say that when i see the x20s on my lake surfing, they already look so bow high. i don't think i could handle any more rear weight without adding a lot more to the bow. just my .02
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-08-2018, 12:03 AM
wallos wallos is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Boat: 2018 X20 6000
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by XC500mod View Post
how much work is it?

you could plumb the bags in and then play with the fill times to get the wave right. maybe you won't want everything filled up, but maybe you'll like some weight over stock. it should help you list the boat with weight over stock. also when the crew is larger have more people sit in the bow and in front of the tower legs and load up the bags and tanks.

i would say that when i see the x20s on my lake surfing, they already look so bow high. i don't think i could handle any more rear weight without adding a lot more to the bow. just my .02
Thanks for your comments. I agree it would be nice to play with some extra weight. I planned to adjust fill percentages according to crew size (as opposed to times which I would adjust to fill 100%).

I already have about 350lb in rear that really improves size and shape. Don't know if more is better, but as you said I might like it. I went overboard with engine just so I could add ton of ballast if wanted.

X20 certainly has high bow but thats what create best wave shape IMO, so more weight in bow will be to balance added ballast not lower bow. I must admit I haven't really played with weight in bow other than putting a 260lb guy up there. I didn't think it improved wave.

As I said above main concern is that bags will completely fill before tanks are full. Tanks are in a more ideal center location. If I'm not filling 100% I may be moving weight from middle to back which will change wave, likely not for the better. I don't want to add weight to stern if it doesn't improve wave. It will certainly hurt gas usage.

It's not a ton of work but it is the kind of work I hate: putting together fittings that don't want to fit in hard to reach places. Also idea of using heat gun on hoses near fuel line is a bit terrifying. If I wasn't concerned about it possibly making wave worst I have no problem doing the work.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:25 AM
FourFourty's Avatar
FourFourty FourFourty is offline
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Boat: 2018 XStar that's trying to be a 40th.
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,288
I think I understand what you are concerned with now........ that the bag will be filling before the front lower portion of your hard tank, which will cause more weight biased to the rear....

However, gravity is going to correct that in a hurry...... The bag sits higher than the front portion of the hard tank, and will fill up before the bag.

Only the middle portion, that is taller, will remain empty till it is filling the bag. The rest will statically level out.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-11-2018, 05:00 PM
wallos wallos is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Boat: 2018 X20 6000
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourFourty View Post
I think I understand what you are concerned with now........ that the bag will be filling before the front lower portion of your hard tank, which will cause more weight biased to the rear....

However, gravity is going to correct that in a hurry...... The bag sits higher than the front portion of the hard tank, and will fill up before the bag.

Only the middle portion, that is taller, will remain empty till it is filling the bag. The rest will statically level out.
Yes gravity will work it out at some point but high bow of X20 is also a minor factor.

I'm getting bit over analytical but I want to start with full tanks and 400lbs total in bags which I know produces a really good wave. Weight sensitivity is challenge in these boats but could also possibly lead to a more fine tuned wave. I go out surfing 5 days a week so I have lots of opportunity to tweak with ballast and settings.

One solution is I could just buy a pump and keep bags separate. I'm leaning this way or maybe just add more 5gal water bags until I have rear weight figured out then decide.

Here is another drawing that I think might fill tanks 100% then overflow into bags. Bags would empty from T in pump line with check valve. Think this should work?
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:13 AM.


2018