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Old 08-12-2018, 10:43 AM
BirchLakeSN BirchLakeSN is offline
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Boat: MasterCraft PS 190 5.7 98 SN GT40
Location: MN
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95 prostar 190 wont restart sometimes.

Hello all,
I am new to Team Talk but not to ski boats. I have owned a 2001 SN for 16 years, and Have been skiing behind my cousins 95 MC 190 for about 10 years. He has had an issue with the boat not restarting at times when hot. Seems to be OK most ti9mes if we leave the blower motor running all the time.
The engine cranks over fine but will not fire. There is no fuel coming out of the injectors in the Throttle body. The last time this happened when I was with the boat we thought it was a loose connection at the fuel pump. We were looking at that connection trying to diagnose the problem and it started working.
Last week it happened again. Didn't have any tools but checked the following. Fuse for the fuel pump is good. Fuel relay is clicking but do not here the fuel pump running. Fuel pump is very hot. tried cooling it off with ice cubes but still no pumping of fuel. Loosened fuel line at TB and no fuel pressure at all. No meter to check voltage at the pump. Sprayed fuel into TB and the engine fires, so we have spark.
Put the boat on the lift and two days later it starts and runs like a dream without touching a thing. Verified fuse, relay, and voltage is getting to the pump now that it runs. I assume it was when not running also unless the relay was hot and causing the issue.
My question is do these pumps just quit when they get to hot if they are going bad? Or could this be vapor lock preventing fuel from getting to the pump?? He only runs non Ox 91 octane in the boat, so no ethanol.
I have done a couple of days worth of reading posts about fuel pump issues. What is the best solution for replacing this pump that has the two fittings at the bottom and one at the top that is obsolete.
Thanks for any ideas and help with a replacement pump and fittings link. I do have a new relay to install for starters and was going to go thru the fuel lines and pickup in the tank. fuel filter was changed 2 years ago.
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2018, 11:51 AM
Cumminscj Cumminscj is offline
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Get the indmar kit from discount inboard Marine or any of the site sponsors. Or get a Carter p5000 and delete the vapor return. Search the forums on how to do it. It's as simple as can be.

And yes bad fuel pumps quit when they get hot and then will often work again once they cool down.
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2018, 11:52 AM
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JimN JimN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirchLakeSN View Post
Hello all,
I am new to Team Talk but not to ski boats. I have owned a 2001 SN for 16 years, and Have been skiing behind my cousins 95 MC 190 for about 10 years. He has had an issue with the boat not restarting at times when hot. Seems to be OK most ti9mes if we leave the blower motor running all the time.
The engine cranks over fine but will not fire. There is no fuel coming out of the injectors in the Throttle body. The last time this happened when I was with the boat we thought it was a loose connection at the fuel pump. We were looking at that connection trying to diagnose the problem and it started working.
Last week it happened again. Didn't have any tools but checked the following. Fuse for the fuel pump is good. Fuel relay is clicking but do not here the fuel pump running. Fuel pump is very hot. tried cooling it off with ice cubes but still no pumping of fuel. Loosened fuel line at TB and no fuel pressure at all. No meter to check voltage at the pump. Sprayed fuel into TB and the engine fires, so we have spark.
Put the boat on the lift and two days later it starts and runs like a dream without touching a thing. Verified fuse, relay, and voltage is getting to the pump now that it runs. I assume it was when not running also unless the relay was hot and causing the issue.
My question is do these pumps just quit when they get to hot if they are going bad? Or could this be vapor lock preventing fuel from getting to the pump?? He only runs non Ox 91 octane in the boat, so no ethanol.
I have done a couple of days worth of reading posts about fuel pump issues. What is the best solution for replacing this pump that has the two fittings at the bottom and one at the top that is obsolete.
Thanks for any ideas and help with a replacement pump and fittings link. I do have a new relay to install for starters and was going to go thru the fuel lines and pickup in the tank. fuel filter was changed 2 years ago.
ALWAYS start by checking the fuel pressure.

Turn the key to ON and check the temperature. If it's over 220, don't worry- it's just heat soak, but it may be that the ECM is trying to protect the engine. Open the throttle a little and crank it- if it starts, let the temperature drop to normal and shut it off. If it restarts normally, it's likely heat soak, but it would be a good idea to let it idle for awhile if it was run hard immediately prior to shut off, so the temperature can drop. If that doesn't help, check the oil cooler and impeller.

Vapor lock is a possibility and it's one of the reasons they changed to the in-tank pump. Ethanol made that decision a problem, nothing else.

One big difference between boats and cars- boats have a vented fuel tank. Remove the fuel cap and if it sucks air, clean the vent or its hose.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:44 PM
BirchLakeSN BirchLakeSN is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: MasterCraft PS 190 5.7 98 SN GT40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
ALWAYS start by checking the fuel pressure.

Turn the key to ON and check the temperature. If it's over 220, don't worry- it's just heat soak, but it may be that the ECM is trying to protect the engine. Open the throttle a little and crank it- if it starts, let the temperature drop to normal and shut it off. If it restarts normally, it's likely heat soak, but it would be a good idea to let it idle for awhile if it was run hard immediately prior to shut off, so the temperature can drop. If that doesn't help, check the oil cooler and impeller.

Vapor lock is a possibility and it's one of the reasons they changed to the in-tank pump. Ethanol made that decision a problem, nothing else.

One big difference between boats and cars- boats have a vented fuel tank. Remove the fuel cap and if it sucks air, clean the vent or its hose.
JimN,
Temp was OK and boat had been sitting for 45 minutes with the fan running. Giving gas did nothing to help. As I stated there was no fuel coming from the injectors in the throttle body, and it would fire with gas dumped in the TB but not continue to run. Also had no fuel when the fuel line was removed from the TB.
Forgot to mention that my cousin did put 5 gallons of gas in while we were troubleshooting and that did not help. So not a venting issue or low fuel.
Cumminsjc,
I have read about both but was not sure about the delete of the vapor return and if that causes any issues down the road. ???


Thanks for the quick replies.
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:25 PM
Cumminscj Cumminscj is offline
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Deleting the vapor return has not affected the two I have done.

Personally I would go ahead and clean the anti drainback valve on top of the fuel tank and the fuel pick up screen while I did the pump. That way you know you have unrestricted flow with your new pump.

The fact that it will run off fuel dumped into the throttle body would indicate the pickup coil in the distributor is good and the injectors should be firing once you restore pressure. There are several adapters to hook to this fuel system. Summit racing sells some and that is the one I use for cars and boats.

So to recap, you verified power to the pump, you verified no pressure. As long as the pickup in the fuel tank didn't break off or get plugged you should need a new pump.
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2000 Maristar 210VRS-weekend ride
1996 205 with LT1 cracked block-winter project

Last edited by Cumminscj; 08-14-2018 at 09:41 AM. Reason: spellcheck
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:34 PM
88 PS190 88 PS190 is offline
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Boat: 1988 MC Prostar 190, 351 Ford
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No fuel from injector plus glkd fuel pressure get out the VM and test your icm and pickup coil.
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  #7  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:11 PM
BirchLakeSN BirchLakeSN is offline
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Boat: MasterCraft PS 190 5.7 98 SN GT40
Location: MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cumminscj View Post
Deleting the vapor return has not affected the two I have done.

Personally I would go ahead and clean the anti drainback valve on top of the fuel tank and the fuel pick up screen while I did the pump. That way you know you have unrestricted flow with your new pump.

The fact that it will run off fuel dumped into the throttle body would indicate the pickup coil in the distributor is good and the injectors should be firing once you restore pressure. There are several adapters to hook to this fuel system. Summit racing sells some and that is the one I use for cars and boats.

So to recap, you verified power to the pump, you verified no pressure. As long as the pickup in the fuel tank didn't break off or get plugged you should need a new pump.
Cumminscj,
Thanks for the feedback. I am thinking of ordering the P5000, put in a new relay and as you said clean and check the lines to the tank etc. Also a new fuel filter. I see Summit also has the P61171 Marine version per their web site, but I have not found the max pressure stated as of yet. Ill keep looking. Might go with that one since it is marine approved.
Did you use the nipple fitting that Summit includes for inlet connection or is there an adapter fitting available to go from the original hose threaded end to the new pump?

Thanks for your help.
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:17 PM
rossi_the_heeler rossi_the_heeler is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: 1994 Prostar 205
Location: midwest
Posts: 36
I used the p5000 (or p5001 i cant remember) version (from NAPA) just a few weeks ago.
Totally a direct replacement, minus the vapor return. I bought a 1/8" compression cap for filling up the unused vapor return port on the Tee.
It took about a half of a beer to totally replace it.
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  #9  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:51 PM
BirchLakeSN BirchLakeSN is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: MasterCraft PS 190 5.7 98 SN GT40
Location: MN
Posts: 10
Just heard back from Carter about the two fuel pumps. He recommended the P5000 due to the fittings that come with it. the P61171 comes with nothing and he was not aware of anyone who had been able to find the fittings to fit that pump, even tho he said they are identical except for a slight GPH rating. He claimed the P5000 was 50GPH @ 40PSI and the P61171 is 35GPH at 40PSI. More discrepancy in published numbers on different vendors web sites.
I also noticed in another post that there was some missing info on the Indmar Chart that is posted here multiple times. There is no mention of the 95 TB (17095176) that is in this boat I am working on and is also mentioned in this post. https://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk...light=17095176


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Last edited by BirchLakeSN; 08-14-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:21 PM
rossi_the_heeler rossi_the_heeler is offline
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Boat: 1994 Prostar 205
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He is correct on the 5000 fittings. Super quick swap out. It worked well for my application. (i have a 1994 350 tbi. my only complaint is its kind of loud. But at least you know when it starts!
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