Go Back   TeamTalk > Maintenance Tips, How-tos and Refurbishing Topics > Engine / Drive Train

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08-31-2018, 12:06 AM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 17,230
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
Hi lake i have this manual as well, great reference for iur tbi and mefi, plus some wiring diagrams.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-31-2018, 12:30 AM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 17,230
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
Have you checked alignment? I would check with a different prop.. also send an oil sample to blackstone group to rule out engine issues.

My wot rpms are 4400ish.. running a 4b 13x13 prop.

How easy does your prop turn when engine off? How are cutlass bearings?

You may want to try a shorter pitch prop to see if rpms go up as they should.



Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-03-2018, 08:18 PM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 17,230
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
I wonder if you have a decrease in fuel pressure. Have you ever changed the spring and diaphragm?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:05 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 406
Fuel pressure has been within spec when I've measured it, but I haven't measure it since I replaced the fuel pump with a new one and tested it in the boat last year because of an intermittent small leak on top of the then existing pump. I'm going to check it again shortly. I have never changed a spring and diaphragm.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1

Last edited by lake weir skier; 09-04-2018 at 01:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-04-2018, 08:19 AM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 17,230
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
I ordered my parts for self made fuel pressure test adapter... thx for part #s.

Mine is running lean... and prolly starved at higher rpm...


More to come

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-04-2018, 09:10 AM
JimN's Avatar
JimN JimN is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by lake weir skier View Post
Somebody on my compression thread also brought up the importance of paying attention to that alignment.

This is the timing I reported when I tested in 2015. I have not ever adjusted it. The spec I have from Indmar for base timing is 10 degrees BTDC, so I was already 2 degrees from that.

Note : Validity of timing mark location confirmed with piston stop tool.
Base timing in service mode at 1,000 RPM:

12 degrees BTDC measured with new Innova
timing light

2,000 RPM: 32 degrees BTDC (Base plus 20 degrees advance added)

3,000 RPM: 42 degrees BTDC (Base plus 30 degrees advance added)

4,330 RPM at WOT: 42 degrees BTDC (Base plus 30 degrees advance added)
Were the MAP and timing measured under load, or in idle? It matters, a lot. If the knock sensor picked up something in gear, it will retard the timing in 5 degree increments and it would never pick up the sound in neutral. MAP under load can be very different from the reading in neutral, too.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-04-2018, 06:22 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Were the MAP and timing measured under load, or in idle? It matters, a lot. If the knock sensor picked up something in gear, it will retard the timing in 5 degree increments and it would never pick up the sound in neutral. MAP under load can be very different from the reading in neutral, too.
For the 2015 timing figures in the comment to which you responded, my recollection is the 1,000 RPM base timing was in service mode in neutral and the timing reported for the higher RPM values was on the lake in gear.

I'm not sure what you mean by the MAP being under load. The voltages I reported earlier were with the key on but the engine off and the MAP sensor disconnected from the throttle body. The test vacuum levels on the MAP sensor were created with a hand vacuum pump connected to the MAP sensor.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1

Last edited by lake weir skier; 09-04-2018 at 08:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-04-2018, 09:20 PM
JimN's Avatar
JimN JimN is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by lake weir skier View Post
For the 2015 timing figures in the comment to which you responded, my recollection is the 1,000 RPM base timing was in service mode in neutral and the timing reported for the higher RPM values was on the lake in gear.

I'm not sure what you mean by the MAP being under load. The voltages I reported earlier were with the key on but the engine off and the MAP sensor disconnected from the throttle body. The test vacuum levels on the MAP sensor were created with a hand vacuum pump connected to the MAP sensor.
I didn’t mean the sensor was under load, it’s the engine and this is on the water, in gear and at various speeds, fuel pressure is also tested in gear, on the water and at KEOE (Key On, Engine Off), idle, 2000 RPM and at WOT. Those were recommended at training abd they drilled it into our heads.

Another point they drilled into our heads- “Above idle, the MAP sensor runs the show”. That was the mantra at training because they and MC received so many calls about engines revving fine until about 3000 RPM, sagging and finally going higher but not to the normal WOT RPM.

The on-hold message at Indmar had someone delivering a scripted message about Indmar, the things they do and finally, some technical facts like “more than 80% of all drivability complaints are caused by fuel delivery problems”. That means, make sure the fuel pressure is correct at those four speeds, on the water and in gear.

You tested the MAP sensor, not the engine which is only academic. Testing the sensor without the engine beingbunder load is fairly pointless unless you think the sensor had already failed. It took a while for me to grasp this concept, but when I was able to take the boats tobthe lake for testing, I saw the differences in the various readings.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:25 PM
lake weir skier lake weir skier is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Boat: 1994 MasterCraft ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
I didn’t mean the sensor was under load, it’s the engine and this is on the water, in gear and at various speeds, fuel pressure is also tested in gear, on the water and at KEOE (Key On, Engine Off), idle, 2000 RPM and at WOT. Those were recommended at training abd they drilled it into our heads.

Another point they drilled into our heads- “Above idle, the MAP sensor runs the show”. That was the mantra at training because they and MC received so many calls about engines revving fine until about 3000 RPM, sagging and finally going higher but not to the normal WOT RPM.

The on-hold message at Indmar had someone delivering a scripted message about Indmar, the things they do and finally, some technical facts like “more than 80% of all drivability complaints are caused by fuel delivery problems”. That means, make sure the fuel pressure is correct at those four speeds, on the water and in gear.

You tested the MAP sensor, not the engine which is only academic. Testing the sensor without the engine beingbunder load is fairly pointless unless you think the sensor had already failed. It took a while for me to grasp this concept, but when I was able to take the boats tobthe lake for testing, I saw the differences in the various readings.
As you describe is how I tested the fuel pressure in 2015 because I read your advice on fuel pressure testing at that time and that's how I plan to test it in 2018, but I don't have a lake in my backyard, so testing on the lake is more difficult to arrange than in the driveway. I've got a list of numerous items I want to check based on consulting you and several manuals, but fuel delivery is at the top of the list.

I also read in 2015 your advice on the importance of the MAP sensor above idle, which is one reason I went ahead and tested the MAP sensor itself. I've read online complaints from others who've bought it where I did and wanted to verify the appropriateness of its voltage output at known vacuum levels (a test I first saw described by you). Since Larry Engelbert says Indmar does not have vacuum specs, and I have not heard any from you, am I correct in concluding the under load test of the MAP sensor you are suggesting involves measurement of the voltage at different RPM levels? If so, since I have already tested the MAP sensor itself, this would appear to amount to an indirect test of the vacuum on the MAP sensor and not the MAP sensor itself.
__________________
1994 ProStar 190, 350 TBI, 1:1
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-05-2018, 01:21 AM
JimN's Avatar
JimN JimN is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,320
Compression, leakdown and vacuum are the indicators for determining the health of an engine and that’s why seeing the MAP sensor’s reading under load is so important. Testing the sensor is fine, but it would be good to know how it compares to a new one.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 PM.


2018