Surge brakes pulsating or "machine gunning"

[214skier]

Well the project is complete. Overall it was not a terribly difficult process.

Removing the existing Reliable actuator involved disconnecting brake line, reverse shut out wire and the ground wire. Once those were disconnected, taking the actuator off was easy---one bolt.

We had a friend who owns a body shop paint match the new UFP actuator sleeve. We reconnected the brake line, reverse shut out wire and ground. We added brake fluid and then bleed the brakes. Bleeding was probably the toughest--we couldn't get a good seal using the vacuum system so we had to do it the old fashion way.

Please note, the new UFP actuator is longer than the existing Reliable. Safety chains etc., are plenty long for the new set up.

I do like the attachment mechanism better than the Reliable option.

[214skier]

Originally Posted by mikeg205

It's critical to have the brakes bled properly. If you have the UFP A60 or any UFP master cylinder it also has to be bled - according to UFP tech. Two holes in UFP master cylinder from UFP in the M-cylinder I have. Also, a shock absorber in the actuator will cause the piston in the master cylinder to move quicker on the rebound when trailer slows down.

I had my issue upon light breaking....You can easily see the actuator bucking forward and backward and causing the chattering sound...per UFP - new shock, wear pads and properly bled lines.

Mike:

I have taken the following steps:

I installed the actuator on the trailer
Attached the blue reverse lock out wire.
Attached the white ground wire to the solenoid
I filled the brake fluid reservoir
We bled the brakes one wheel at a time front to back while apply pressure to the actuator

I think I am done? However, you mention the following, "If you have the UFP A60 or any UFP master cylinder it also has to be bled - "

How do you bleed the master cylinder?

thanks!

[mikeg205]

Originally Posted by mramerman@gmail.com

Mike:

I have taken the following steps:

I installed the actuator on the trailer
Attached the blue reverse lock out wire.
Attached the white ground wire to the solenoid
I filled the brake fluid reservoir
We bled the brakes one wheel at a time front to back while apply pressure to the actuator

I think I am done? However, you mention the following, "If you have the UFP A60 or any UFP master cylinder it also has to be bled - "

How do you bleed the master cylinder?

thanks!

If you're your bled thru all lines... you are good... some times the master cylinder needs to be primed - was having trouble and called UFP - so I I had to pour brake fluid into master cylinder before I installed it..(had to take it out) so make sure there was no air in master cylinder - it was weird.

[214skier]

Originally Posted by mikeg205

If you're your bled thru all lines... you are good... some times the master cylinder needs to be primed - was having trouble and called UFP - so I I had to pour brake fluid into master cylinder before I installed it..(had to take it out) so make sure there was no air in master cylinder - it was weird.

Thanks for the reply. We worked really hard to bleed the brakes. One guy was applying pressure the actuator and the other opening the individual brake valves. Upon manual testing (spinning the rotors) we can get brakes to bite. It is really hard to tell behind my F250 if the brakes are working or not.

I have a sneaking suspicion there maybe air remaining in the line for two (not so obvious) reasons: 1) it seem like I would really be able to feel the trailer braking and not producing incremental force against the truck (i think I could feel that in the past)---I do not now and 2) After several rounds of bleeding and doing one last test--we would get a blast of air. We would then bleed each valve 2 - 3x, ensuring a steady stream of fluid only to come across another air bubble.

[mikeg205]

Originally Posted by mramerman@gmail.com

Thanks for the reply. We worked really hard to bleed the brakes. One guy was applying pressure the actuator and the other opening the individual brake valves. Upon manual testing (spinning the rotors) we can get brakes to bite. It is really hard to tell behind my F250 if the brakes are working or not.

I have a sneaking suspicion there maybe air remaining in the line for two (not so obvious) reasons: 1) it seem like I would really be able to feel the trailer braking and not producing incremental force against the truck (i think I could feel that in the past)---I do not now and 2) After several rounds of bleeding and doing one last test--we would get a blast of air. We would then bleed each valve 2 - 3x, ensuring a steady stream of fluid only to come across another air bubble.

Use a ratcheting belt - much easier - wrap the belt around bow support and actuator...wratchet to complete inserted position - bleed... release belt... add fluid if needed repeat... no straining - no pain - takes half the time.

[214skier]

Originally Posted by mikeg205

Use a ratcheting belt - much easier - wrap the belt around bow support and actuator...wratchet to complete inserted position - bleed... release belt... add fluid if needed repeat... no straining - no pain - takes half the time.

dude! duh. GREAT idea. Gosh, we were killing our backs squeezing that damn thing.

On it.

[mikeg205]

Originally Posted by mramerman@gmail.com

dude! duh. GREAT idea. Gosh, we were killing our backs squeezing that damn thing.

On it.

Yeah got the idea when I saw my son straining... we popped a couple of cold ones and brain stormed... had one so it was a freebie solution. It was that or get a pressurized brake bleeder - but I didn't want to spend the cash on that...

awesome to share solutions... love this forum..

[214skier]

Originally Posted by mikeg205

Yeah got the idea when I saw my son straining... we popped a couple of cold ones and brain stormed... had one so it was a freebie solution. It was that or get a pressurized brake bleeder - but I didn't want to spend the cash on that...

awesome to share solutions... love this forum..

Could not agree more.

We couldn't get the pressurized brake bleeder to work. There isn't enough room on the nipple for the hose line to connect and get box wrench around to open and close the valve.

I can easily see where we went wrong... we didn't have the cold ones, encouraging the break in action to consider simpler alternatives.

I agree, love this forum too. Great to share passion for the sport, boat and good old fashion ingenuity.

[JDC]

Originally Posted by mramerman@gmail.com

dude! duh. GREAT idea. Gosh, we were killing our backs squeezing that damn thing.

On it.

Look in the manual that came with your actuator. It shows where to insert a small flat blade screwdriver in a hole in the bottom and pry on the plunger for the master cylinder. You also need to hold in the release lever so the plunger will release when you let off of your screwdriver, but it's all very easy. (page 24, with illustration on 25)
Here is a link to the manual > http://www.ufpnet.com/Portals/0/PDFs...aintenance.pdf

I had my 11 year old daughter sitting on a stool at the actuator with the screwdriver prying for me. I explained the communication we needed between us (she tells me when she's holding; I tell her when the bleeder is closed etc.) and we had all 4 wheels bled in 15 minutes. We would have had it done sooner if the master cylinder held more than like 1/3 cup of fluid. Having to get out from underneath and refill it every 3rd or 4th bleed was a pain.

I did bleed mine a 2nd time a few days later as it just didn't feel right. I found I still had air in the left side. The 2nd time I had my wife help me. My daughter had the hang of it quicker but I think at 11... you learn quicker.

Also, (I saw it mentioned in an earlier post) step 1 and 2 on page 24 talks about bleeding the master cylinder.

[amcmac]

Originally Posted by mramerman@gmail.com

Thanks for the reply. We worked really hard to bleed the brakes. One guy was applying pressure the actuator and the other opening the individual brake valves. Upon manual testing (spinning the rotors) we can get brakes to bite. It is really hard to tell behind my F250 if the brakes are working or not.

I have a sneaking suspicion there maybe air remaining in the line for two (not so obvious) reasons: 1) it seem like I would really be able to feel the trailer braking and not producing incremental force against the truck (i think I could feel that in the past)---I do not now and 2) After several rounds of bleeding and doing one last test--we would get a blast of air. We would then bleed each valve 2 - 3x, ensuring a steady stream of fluid only to come across another air bubble.

I know what you mean on reason #1. After I got mine conversion done it felt like they weren't working like they did before. I didn't feel the annoying "clunk" anymore.

Originally Posted by mikeg205

Use a ratcheting belt - much easier - wrap the belt around bow support and actuator...wratchet to complete inserted position - bleed... release belt... add fluid if needed repeat... no straining - no pain - takes half the time.

Originally Posted by mramerman@gmail.com

dude! duh. GREAT idea. Gosh, we were killing our backs squeezing that damn thing.

On it.

Another possible solution is to use the trailer winch. I also felt like I got a better "bleed" using that method over the screwdriver method, and you don't have to hold the tab on the bottom. Another point to my statement above, for testing,I put the trailer on jack stands. I had a friend spin a tire and I would pull the plunger/coupler into receiver with the trailer winch. The tire locked up hard to where you couldn't spin it by hand. Repeated the other side and I was golden. It was mentioned earlier or a different thread about pushing the boat in the garage being difficult. I will say after I released the winch, the tires did not spin free until you pulled the coupler all the way out of the receiver.