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Old 04-21-2013, 12:36 AM
scustoms scustoms is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Boat: Mastercract, 205, 1993, 351PCM
Location: Clayton, CA
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Trailer brakes dragging.

Stumped. Missed last weekend due to this issue and now missing this weekend.

Too hot to touch within 10 miles. It gets hotter and hotter obviously by the distance however the right two seem to get hotter than any others. The new 'hub/drum' stays the coolest of them all but still gets hot.

Parts:
- New backing plates complete with shoes, springs, adjusters and wheel cylinders.
- New bearings, races/cups and seals.
- New complete actuator assembly (my master cylinder was rusted in) Verified the part number matches the application. (tandem drum)
- New flexible line from actuator to T on first axle.
- Replaced all hard lines/fittings after the rubber lines down to the axle.
- One new drum/hub due to one being cracked. Re-using the other three.


Setup:
- Adjusted all brakes 5 clicks in from where it won't rotate per UFP A-60 actuator for tandem axle trailer. Verify ~1 rotation when given a slight push.
- 2x Bleed all the brakes via the screw driver method always careful to keep the bottle/hose higher than the valve. Dropped the tongue down as far as I could with the trailer jack. No bubbles.
- Bearings are tightened with a 1/2" ratchet them backed up and tightened to finger tight. Pined and greased.

No visible leaks. I can get the pin on the actuator to move all the way to the back using a truck and wheel chocks. Barely move it by hand. However it is slow to return and seems to have more of a 'clunk' that it did before but it may be in my head.

- Checked the bearings by moving the tire while on a jackstand/jack. No play.
- Checked the movement of the shoes by removing the drum/hub and pushing on the tongue.
- Check braking by rotating tire and pushing on tongue.

Once it gets hot and I put it in the driveway when I jack it up I can not rotate the tire easily.

Starting to regret not going to discs.. Leaning towards replace all the other hubs/drums but looking at the hub/drum I do not see any unusual rub/drag marks and do not hear anything while adjusting them. Or cut my loss and convert to discs now?

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2013, 07:45 AM
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mikeg205 mikeg205 is online now
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Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
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Yes, your brakes are adjusted to loose.... IMO - Had the same problem. You should be able to hear the brake pads scraping a bit when then the wheel spins. For me the screwdriver method to bleed the brakes did not work. I used a ratchet strap to move the actuator 100%. Then get bleed the starting with furthest brake(s) - starboard side I assume on yours. (repeat) until of course no bubbles. Then repeat for port side.

I was surprised how this method improved the pressure during the bleed process.

When I was improperly bled/adjusted I had the same symptoms. I was using the screwdriver method and now will never do it that way again.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:03 AM
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bturner2 bturner2 is offline
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Boat: Maristar 200VRS w/ X2 Package, 2007, 310HP
Location: Brighton, MI
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I did the backing plate install on my 95 MariStar and regretted it. On my installation I was unable for some reason to get the plate assembly to center which caused the brakes to need to be adjusted so far out that they were ineffective. Anything short of that and I was cooking the axle. I had the wheels off readjusting about 5 times when I finally decided to convert to disks. Did the entire installation (single axle trailer) in couple hours. The result was amazing from a performance and maintenance perspective. The brakes stopped the trailer very noticeably better and there was no more need to adjust the shoes.

Not sure is this is what's going on with your set up but if so you may want to consider mounting up the old backing plate using the marks from the original installation to center the place and transfer over the new components to the old plate. I would have tried this on mine but I was so sure I had everything working on the original installation that I tossed everything out. Very frustrating experience to say the least. Maybe someone else on the site has a better tip for getting this back together for you but that's where I ended up.....
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:18 AM
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mikeg205 mikeg205 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturner2 View Post
I did the backing plate install on my 95 MariStar and regretted it. On my installation I was unable for some reason to get the plate assembly to center which caused the brakes to need to be adjusted so far out that they were ineffective.

Not sure is this is what's going on with your set up but if so you may want to consider mounting up the old backing plate using the marks from the original installation to center the place and transfer over the new components to the old plate......
How were you able to move the backing plate? The drum backing plate has 4 bolts...no way to adjust backing plate - your year must had different setup... Good idea going to disc.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:34 AM
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93Prostar190 93Prostar190 is online now
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On my 93 trailer I made the switch to disc brakes and never looked back .... But I did install a full drum kit once and the adjustment was the hardest part .... I am guessing you may be too loose ... I prefer to use a vacuum bleeder like a mity vac to "pull" the brake fluid through the lines .... When adjusting and bleeding you want to ensure the tongue/actuator is fully extended ....
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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bturner2 bturner2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
How were you able to move the backing plate? The drum backing plate has 4 bolts...no way to adjust backing plate - your year must had different setup... Good idea going to disc.
If you loosen up the bolts just a little you'll see there is some slop. If you tap it in several directions you'll see the backing plate can actually move about a 1/4" (1/8" from center) in each direction. The last ting I was going to try before I gave up was loosen up the bolts, then adjust out the shoes out to let then center the backing plate, then tighten up the bolts again. I was so frustrated with screwing with them that I never got back to actually trying it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:29 AM
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mikeg205 mikeg205 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturner2 View Post
If you loosen up the bolts just a little you'll see there is some slop. If you tap it in several directions you'll see the backing plate can actually move about a 1/4" (1/8" from center) in each direction. The last ting I was going to try before I gave up was loosen up the bolts, then adjust out the shoes out to let then center the backing plate, then tighten up the bolts again. I was so frustrated with screwing with them that I never got back to actually trying it.
Wow -there was no slop in mine..but they did not work right till I had them bled and adjusted properly. I was getting frustrated as well and almost had them sent out. My biggest frustration was the machine gutting on light slow downs...which was air in the line..
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  #8  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:37 AM
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bturner2 bturner2 is offline
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Knowing what I know now I would have left the original plates in place and just transferred over the parts which I believe would have worked very well. For bleeding I bought a Motive power bleeder and never looked back.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/

I've used this for all my cars and trailers by buying the adapter kits when needed. Works like a charm and you don't need anyone around to help out.
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:22 AM
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Jerseydave Jerseydave is offline
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After the brakes get hot and you jack it up, you say the wheels are dragging. Try to loosen each bleeder screw and see if the wheels suddenly turn ok. If they do, you either have a bad actuator or a collapsed hose that is acting like a one-way check valve.
Do you have a folding tongue with a rubber brake hose there? If so, that might be the hose causing your problem.
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2013, 02:52 AM
scustoms scustoms is offline
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Boat: Mastercract, 205, 1993, 351PCM
Location: Clayton, CA
Posts: 20
Ok. So i picked up a hand mitevac and got a ton of air out was unfortunate and stripped a bleeder on one of the wheel cylinders.. I will pick up a new one tomorrow and try that. Wasn't over tightening but the wrench is awkward and pried on it..

If anyone is redoing brakes don't bother with the screw driver. I tried the 2x4 and use my girlfriend but the cables are too long. Vacuum bleeder I can do all alone and it is way easier. I found using the 'cone or needle' shaped fitting inside the bleeder works better than the rubber over the bleeder.


I want to confirm I should have the small shoe in the front? I see different information on the web. They came loaded and I just paid attention to the brake line location.

As for locating the shoes/backing plates there are pins that fit inside the hole of the backing plate less than an 1/8 inch high. I will try to remember to take a picture tomorrow but if all four pins for in the hole then you can tighten down the four bolts.

I will update once I get it out (probably Thursday.)

Hopefully it is just air however trailer parts guy said air wouldn't do that and that the brakes should not drag at all and the tire should free spin more than one rotation. I shrugged and walked away as he stocks the parts I need.
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