Go Back   TeamTalk > Off Topic > Off Topic Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-14-2013, 05:51 PM
GoneBoatN's Avatar
GoneBoatN GoneBoatN is online now
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Boat: 2010 X-15 w/MCX
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
My pleasure.

Americans need to pick up The Constitution once and a while and read it.
Thomas Jefferson lived from 1743 to 1826. It's sort of like saying we should still keep defending ourselves with the musket. Unfortunately we live in the day and age where people for enough money can get access to stuff they should not. Just one more tool for defense against the seriously bad people. People want total freedom and then something like 9/11 (pick the event to your liking) happens and then they cry that enough was not done to stop it. How exactly to you find the bad people if you don't go looking? It's not like they have a sign tattooed to their forehead.

Oh, by the way, I have read the constitution, thank you very much/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-14-2013, 07:01 PM
thatsmrmastercraft's Avatar
thatsmrmastercraft thatsmrmastercraft is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Boat: 1977 Stars & Stripes
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 14,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
Thomas Jefferson lived from 1743 to 1826. It's sort of like saying we should still keep defending ourselves with the musket. Unfortunately we live in the day and age where people for enough money can get access to stuff they should not. Just one more tool for defense against the seriously bad people. People want total freedom and then something like 9/11 (pick the event to your liking) happens and then they cry that enough was not done to stop it. How exactly to you find the bad people if you don't go looking? It's not like they have a sign tattooed to their forehead.

Oh, by the way, I have read the constitution, thank you very much/
Perhaps you missed this part from the article:

"He said one of the problems with the plan is that there is “wiggle room” on how the information will be used. In the past, the National CounterTerrorism Center, which is supposed to ensure that critical threat information is shared among various agencies, was obliged to “promptly identify and purge any innocent U.S. person information.”

But the guidelines were subsequently loosened so that “not only can they keep the data for a number of years, but they can continue to use it,” German said."


I don't think anyone suggests that we don't look for the bad guys, but this isn't supposed to be an open invitation to compile bank records of people who fall into the "innocent" category, as suggested by the article.
__________________
Peter

Tandem Axle Wheel & Tire Package $629
4 Matte Black T08 14x6 wheels, 4 ST205/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires

Single Axle Wheel & Tire Package $379
2 Matte Black T08 14x6 wheels, 2 ST215/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires
MOUNT, BALANCE & FREE SHIPPING INCLUDED IN BOTH PACKAGES



CARB REBUILDING - FAST TURN-AROUND. $100 +PARTS
LED lights, Hubs, Spare Tire Carriers, Chrome & Powder Coated Lug Nuts - Red, Blue & Black


PM or email me tiresplease@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-14-2013, 07:45 PM
GoneBoatN's Avatar
GoneBoatN GoneBoatN is online now
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Boat: 2010 X-15 w/MCX
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatsmrmastercraft View Post
Perhaps you missed this part from the article:

"He said one of the problems with the plan is that there is “wiggle room” on how the information will be used. In the past, the National CounterTerrorism Center, which is supposed to ensure that critical threat information is shared among various agencies, was obliged to “promptly identify and purge any innocent U.S. person information.”

But the guidelines were subsequently loosened so that “not only can they keep the data for a number of years, but they can continue to use it,” German said."


I don't think anyone suggests that we don't look for the bad guys, but this isn't supposed to be an open invitation to compile bank records of people who fall into the "innocent" category, as suggested by the article.
One of the problems with analyzing data is knowing exactly what you are looking for at the time you are looking at the data. So there is a need to keep it. Seems to me terrorism is typically long planned out. Terrorist operate over a long period of time. It would be necessary to keep the information for a long period of time to be useful.

The point becomes that the information is used only for the intent that it was obtain and that it does not become public. IMO someone stating "wiggle room" (surely the document does not use these terms) is using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) to incite people rather than state facts. I myself would want to know the details before passing judgement on it. I myself believe that to this day the CIA and others are a necessary evil.

But, yes I did skip over that part while reading/skimming the article.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-14-2013, 07:49 PM
mikeg205's Avatar
mikeg205 mikeg205 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Boat: 1995 Pro Star 205 5.7 Liter
Location: Plainfield - Joliet, IL
Posts: 10,400
Send a message via Skype™ to mikeg205
Ah this is a slippery slope... unfortunately our leaders continue down a path once a gate is open.....
__________________
...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:12 PM
JimN's Avatar
JimN JimN is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson
So, no thoughts of your own?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:14 PM
JimN's Avatar
JimN JimN is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,455
I never wanted to live in another country until recently. The problem is, "Which one?".

It's too bad- two of my ancestors came here from England in 1654.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:48 PM
thatsmrmastercraft's Avatar
thatsmrmastercraft thatsmrmastercraft is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Boat: 1977 Stars & Stripes
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 14,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
One of the problems with analyzing data is knowing exactly what you are looking for at the time you are looking at the data. So there is a need to keep it. Seems to me terrorism is typically long planned out. Terrorist operate over a long period of time. It would be necessary to keep the information for a long period of time to be useful.

The point becomes that the information is used only for the intent that it was obtain and that it does not become public. IMO someone stating "wiggle room" (surely the document does not use these terms) is using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) to incite people rather than state facts. I myself would want to know the details before passing judgement on it. I myself believe that to this day the CIA and others are a necessary evil.

But, yes I did skip over that part while reading/skimming the article.
No argument on this.
__________________
Peter

Tandem Axle Wheel & Tire Package $629
4 Matte Black T08 14x6 wheels, 4 ST205/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires

Single Axle Wheel & Tire Package $379
2 Matte Black T08 14x6 wheels, 2 ST215/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires
MOUNT, BALANCE & FREE SHIPPING INCLUDED IN BOTH PACKAGES



CARB REBUILDING - FAST TURN-AROUND. $100 +PARTS
LED lights, Hubs, Spare Tire Carriers, Chrome & Powder Coated Lug Nuts - Red, Blue & Black


PM or email me tiresplease@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:53 PM
GoneBoatN's Avatar
GoneBoatN GoneBoatN is online now
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Boat: 2010 X-15 w/MCX
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
I never wanted to live in another country until recently. The problem is, "Which one?".

It's too bad- two of my ancestors came here from England in 1654.
Too bad Canada is so cold and taxes (based only upon hearsay) are so high. Maybe global warming will make it more appealing. It would be interesting to hear some other country complaining about all the illegal aliens from the US.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:55 PM
thatsmrmastercraft's Avatar
thatsmrmastercraft thatsmrmastercraft is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Boat: 1977 Stars & Stripes
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 14,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
Too bad Canada is so cold and taxes (based only upon hearsay) are so high. Maybe global warming will make it more appealing. It would be interesting to hear some other country complaining about all the illegal aliens from the US.
Great point. Might have to wait a while to find any.
__________________
Peter

Tandem Axle Wheel & Tire Package $629
4 Matte Black T08 14x6 wheels, 4 ST205/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires

Single Axle Wheel & Tire Package $379
2 Matte Black T08 14x6 wheels, 2 ST215/75R14 Kenda Loadstar tires
MOUNT, BALANCE & FREE SHIPPING INCLUDED IN BOTH PACKAGES



CARB REBUILDING - FAST TURN-AROUND. $100 +PARTS
LED lights, Hubs, Spare Tire Carriers, Chrome & Powder Coated Lug Nuts - Red, Blue & Black


PM or email me tiresplease@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:03 AM
JimN's Avatar
JimN JimN is offline
MC Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
Too bad Canada is so cold and taxes (based only upon hearsay) are so high. Maybe global warming will make it more appealing. It would be interesting to hear some other country complaining about all the illegal aliens from the US.
I'm sick of the cold and Milwaukee's crappy roads, etc. Beats the crap out of cars and trucks, yet they just passed legislation that makes it impossible to sue the city for damages caused by potholes. I'm waiting for someone to hit a major hole, go out of control and kill someone. The shytestorm will be impressive- I'm sure it will be noticed outside of our city.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:31 AM.