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  #61  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
So what's your problem - that there ARE left-leaning media organizations, that there are too many left leaning media organizations, that they have too much sway over the people who disagree with you, or what? Frankly, I celebrate the left-leaning media as much as I celebrate the right-leaning media as much as I celebrate the independent media (e.g. as I mentioned before, Al-Jazeera. Ever watch it?).

What I hate is the whining that is more prevalent from the right-leaning media about the bias of the general media - it's just unseemly, especially coming from the network that's #1 in cable news shows. "We're #1, but too many people pay attention to the other guys". Really? In the world that we live in, that's what they choose to complain about?

There's nothing more audience-driven than news and the media in general - if people don't like your show, they won't watch it. Obviously, there's a bunch of people who like the Fox News channel, as well there's a bunch of people who like MSNBC. They watch it because it provides them the news and point of view they want. If there's a "liberal bias" to the media it's because that's the media people want. What would you do - tell people what they can or can't watch?
My problem? is that the lack of getting the job done. You seem to prop up kicking the can down the road. The left biased media vilify and admonish the conservatives and tea party members. This evening the big "O" spoke - so much for leadership. But no admonishment by the either the left leaning media or Fox. My problem is that my family income and those above me pay 70% of the income tax. I have to pay 100% of my kids college... no pell grants and no other benefits that those who pay no tax enjoy. My problem - no mortgage bailout when I was laid off in 2009 because my payment was current...my problem - I was unable to get a mortgage bailout because my wife and I were responsible and had savings. My problem - those who were irresponsible got the bailout.

My customers who are small and medium are getting sodomized. They don't know what's coming so they are unable to grow their businesses. The business I frequent are at risk, if the middle class gets taxed more - look to see more small to medium businesses shutting their doors. My problem is that those employees in those businesses will not have income...because those making $174K the congress and the president who makes $400K don't get it.

You bring a good argument Frank but your assertions are flawed.
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  #62  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
Yea, that was a load of crap. 100% unfunded mandate. Worked well, NOT.
But is a big PITA who work in the system - those who are below a certain income level get grants...so the poor get every chance to go and get an education...
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  #63  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:21 PM
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But is a big PITA who work in the system - those who are below a certain income level get grants...so the poor get every chance to go and get an education...

While the middle class, who represent the largest section, struggle to stay where they are at - not to mention better themselves which is quickly becoming unrealistic. Hugely detrimental to our country in a "global economy" era.
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  #64  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:21 PM
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@Frank... oh hell...let's have a beer...I'm in water first... Hit it... - Thanks for the spirited debate. I just get so incensed when I know the people on this forum worked for everything they have...

I'll bring the beer - let's go ski forget this garbage...
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
@Frank... oh hell...let's have a beer...I'm in water first... Hit it... - Thanks for the spirited debate. I just get so incensed when I know the people on this forum worked for everything they have...

I'll bring the beer - let's go ski forget this garbage...
Garbage? I'm having fun here - this has been a great exchange. But I'll take you up on that beer the next time I'm out your way (and the temperature is up to my standards).

I'll agree with the "worked for everything they have" angle - I just wish that the world agreed with me as to what the real problem is, and stopped arguing over inconsequential things. My favorite saying: "Arguing with an engineer is like Mud wrestling with a pig - you'll never win, and pretty soon you figure out that the pig likes it". As always, the requisite XKCD.
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Last edited by FrankSchwab; 12-28-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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  #66  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:36 PM
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Lol Frank... time to go to the It's Friday Time for Drink Thread.
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  #67  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FrankSchwab View Post
... My favorite saying: "Arguing with an engineer is like Mud wrestling with a pig - you'll never win, and pretty soon you figure out that the pig likes it"...
That's a good one and oh so true. Oink, oink.
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  #68  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
I was thinking secondary education. You would be lucky to get a job at Walmart with only a high school deploma. Don't take this comment wrong. I think "the trades" are equally important. Just my point is that training, direction and commitment (by the individual) are needed for success.

Check out the German Education system - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany as an example.

Although this is somewhat off topic, it also applies as better education/training is part of what is needed to put this country back on track.

Also, the cost of seconday/post education is putting it beyond the reach of many individuals. Sure, the poor get assistance, the upper class can afford it - the middle class get raped again.
Look at the data- a lot of kids aren't even bothering to graduate from High School. In MKE, the public school system has some of the worst test scores in the country, >45% dropout rate and unemployment among black males is in the 28% range. The teenage pregnancy rate finally dropped for the first time in years and people wre killing each other all over town, mostly in a 5 square mile area. Do they talk about stopping the killing? Sure- the black community (for lack of a better word) calls for the police department to do something one minute, then, when a woman is beaten by a cop for being a complete POS (it's on camera), the same people call for the police chief's removal. They don't want to cooperate on a good day, why should they expect the PD to solve their problems?

But, I digress.

Personally, and I may have posted something like this before, I think teh MKE school system should put large groups of students in a large hall and give them something to think about. First, they ask them to raise their hand if they don't want to graduate. They send those kids to a different room for their session. The ones who want to stay are gathered on one room and they ask more questions about what they want to do, with congratulations for wanting to do something good. They're basically on the right track, but might need to get some specific goal-setting skills, or something tailored to what they want to do later. The ones who don't want to stay should be asked if they just don't want to be there, if they want to do something specific (maybe some kind of trade) or if they just want to go to work. The ones who say they want to be the next rapper, sports star or Puff Daddy will be told, and it will be reinforced, that the chances are slim to none that this will happen and asked "what do you want to do in case that doesn't work out?". We have a $40M tech school that was donated by Jane Pettit (daughter of Harry Bradley, as in Allen-Bradley). Nice school, in theory. The school system decided to design it themselves and it has a ton of wasted space. The MKE Police Department has people there full time because of all of the fights. I think more kids should be taught a trade if they don't want to go through the usual school work. There's no point in making kids try to learn what they aren't interested in. Sometimes, a light goes on, but it's often a waste of time, effort and money.

Speaking of money, the MKE Public School System budget was $1.18 BILLION last year and every year, the enrollment declines because some kids are bused to the suburbs (causing problems of their own for those suburbs) some drop out and others go to charter or voucher schools. The budget for the whole city was $1.4 Billion.

If the US won't be a major part of the World's manufacturing, it will have to be part of banking, science/engineering/technology and those who aren't as intelligent/educated/motivated will be in the service sector. The problem with all of this is that dropouts will have no chance at a decent job because anything else will be far beyond their skills/education.
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  #69  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Look at the data- a lot of kids aren't even bothering to graduate from High School. In MKE, the public school system has some of the worst test scores in the country, >45% dropout rate and unemployment among black males is in the 28% range. The teenage pregnancy rate finally dropped for the first time in years and people wre killing each other all over town, mostly in a 5 square mile area. Do they talk about stopping the killing? Sure- the black community (for lack of a better word) calls for the police department to do something one minute, then, when a woman is beaten by a cop for being a complete POS (it's on camera), the same people call for the police chief's removal. They don't want to cooperate on a good day, why should they expect the PD to solve their problems?

But, I digress.

Personally, and I may have posted something like this before, I think teh MKE school system should put large groups of students in a large hall and give them something to think about. First, they ask them to raise their hand if they don't want to graduate. They send those kids to a different room for their session. The ones who want to stay are gathered on one room and they ask more questions about what they want to do, with congratulations for wanting to do something good. They're basically on the right track, but might need to get some specific goal-setting skills, or something tailored to what they want to do later. The ones who don't want to stay should be asked if they just don't want to be there, if they want to do something specific (maybe some kind of trade) or if they just want to go to work. The ones who say they want to be the next rapper, sports star or Puff Daddy will be told, and it will be reinforced, that the chances are slim to none that this will happen and asked "what do you want to do in case that doesn't work out?". We have a $40M tech school that was donated by Jane Pettit (daughter of Harry Bradley, as in Allen-Bradley). Nice school, in theory. The school system decided to design it themselves and it has a ton of wasted space. The MKE Police Department has people there full time because of all of the fights. I think more kids should be taught a trade if they don't want to go through the usual school work. There's no point in making kids try to learn what they aren't interested in. Sometimes, a light goes on, but it's often a waste of time, effort and money.

Speaking of money, the MKE Public School System budget was $1.18 BILLION last year and every year, the enrollment declines because some kids are bused to the suburbs (causing problems of their own for those suburbs) some drop out and others go to charter or voucher schools. The budget for the whole city was $1.4 Billion.

If the US won't be a major part of the World's manufacturing, it will have to be part of banking, science/engineering/technology and those who aren't as intelligent/educated/motivated will be in the service sector. The problem with all of this is that dropouts will have no chance at a decent job because anything else will be far beyond their skills/education.
JimN - too bad the good mind trust is in this forum.. you can be President and I will be speaker and senate majority---then we can get shenanigans done...
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:34 AM
FrankSchwab FrankSchwab is offline
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Originally Posted by mikeg205 View Post
JimN - too bad the good mind trust is in this forum.. you can be President and I will be speaker and senate majority---then we can get shenanigans done...
Hey, I get the feeling I'm getting cut out here...
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