my prediction........

[gid]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50109534...h-mens_health/

This is an article from Mens Health; tests show jogging in urban areas lead to lower congnitive functions.

[JimN]

Originally Posted by gid

Jimn - are you saying the folks committed suicide due to the pot / alcohol? The pot / alcohol is not was caused them to do this, it was the underlying issues that were ignored.

I understand your views on pot (and that you quit drinking too) good for your life. IMO you should not prevent someone from staying home and having a smoke if they chose. You seem to think all pot smokers are 'wasted' and dont have a life outside of weed. So narrow minded. I, personally, know several Doctors, very successful business owners, and many other 'wasted' folks who light up.

Personally, I lead a pretty good life. Nice house on the River, a second house on another river (smaller river) three paid for cars, boat, motorcycle (paid for too), two dogs, wife, college degree, go to work every day...I even have a second job during the winter to help a friend out. Been lighting up since 7th grade. I guess, per you, I am just a 'wasted' zombie.

I'll address the 2nd paragraph first- I already said that someone can use it if they want. They should, however, consider the effects first. I know people who have good/great jobs and smoke but, in the case of Doctors- that's really illegal and could cause their license to be revoked, IIRC. I stand by my comments- when the people I know use more than normal, I notice differences that can't really be explained, otherwise.

I don't give a shyte what someone has, as far as possessions and making a point of telling anyone on the internet that you have these things and smoke pot isn't the best idea, IMO, given the possibility that someone could see it even though you don't want them to. It's easy enough to find out where someone lives and if you're in the position of applying for a job/pursuing business interests with someone whose company doesn't allow it, it can have a negative effect on the results.

You can call me narrow-minded but, given a choice, I'd rather drive without having to worry that someone will be too stoned to avoid a collision, think they're giving good medical/legal/financial/career advice when they're not. I never liked dealing with people who were drunk/stoned when I did drink and now, I like it even less.

Now, if you think pot doesn't affect someone's mood, you're wrong. Otherwise, why would you use it? If it can make someone less anxious, there's no reason the paranoia felt by some can't go to an extreme level. The people who killed themselves may have had underlying issues but, to put it mildly, something pushed them over a cliff. I know what happened not long before many of them did it, but not all. With three or four exceptions, I got along with all of them well and their deaths came as enormous shocks. I still wouldn't have wanted the others to do it, regardless of any bad encounters.

I know the cliches- "about the worst thing a pot smoker would do is break in and make a pizza", etc. Hilarious until someone does something drastic when they weren't seeing things without the luxury of not being affected by one substance, or another. Or a combination.

"Wasted zombie" isn't how all people act when they're stoned. Some have been using it for long enough that they're used to it and can "act straight". Also, look into "state learning".

From Wiki, "State-dependent learning (state-dependent memory) is a notion that learning and recalling are based on the physiological and mental state of the organism.

It has been very clearly demonstrated that things learned in one environment are best recalled when that environment is reinstated; and, moreover, this applies equally well to “internal” environments (or states) as it does to “external” environments."

Ever talked about this with someone who stopped using something? They often have a hard time remembering things that came easily and that they learned when they were using. I know a guy who's an electrical engineer. He and his wife are doing great- nice home, two great kids who never got into drinking or drugs and they're in a great financial position. He stopped smoking pot by the end of high school because it was taking over his life and he wasn't getting anything done, she still does. She does all kind of goofy things, like wandering off at a large festival, forgetting to do things, doing things that make no sense WRT what she might otherwise do. Fast forward 30+ years after we worked together and he says that "another friend and I are his memory" because he doesn't remember the things we say had occurred years ago. Granted, not everyone remembers things the same way but he's not the only person I know who has problems with his memory.

Too bad it's not possible to know what would have happened if a given person had never started using it and then go back to reality, to compare.

YMMV

[thatsmrmastercraft]

Originally Posted by JimN

I'll address the 2nd paragraph first- I already said that someone can use it if they want. They should, however, consider the effects first. I know people who have good/great jobs and smoke but, in the case of Doctors- that's really illegal and could cause their license to be revoked, IIRC. I stand by my comments- when the people I know use more than normal, I notice differences that can't really be explained, otherwise.

I don't give a shyte what someone has, as far as possessions and making a point of telling anyone on the internet that you have these things and smoke pot isn't the best idea, IMO, given the possibility that someone could see it even though you don't want them to. It's easy enough to find out where someone lives and if you're in the position of applying for a job/pursuing business interests with someone whose company doesn't allow it, it can have a negative effect on the results.

You can call me narrow-minded but, given a choice, I'd rather drive without having to worry that someone will be too stoned to avoid a collision, think they're giving good medical/legal/financial/career advice when they're not. I never liked dealing with people who were drunk/stoned when I did drink and now, I like it even less.

Now, if you think pot doesn't affect someone's mood, you're wrong. Otherwise, why would you use it? If it can make someone less anxious, there's no reason the paranoia felt by some can't go to an extreme level. The people who killed themselves may have had underlying issues but, to put it mildly, something pushed them over a cliff. I know what happened not long before many of them did it, but not all. With three or four exceptions, I got along with all of them well and their deaths came as enormous shocks. I still wouldn't have wanted the others to do it, regardless of any bad encounters.

I know the cliches- "about the worst thing a pot smoker would do is break in and make a pizza", etc. Hilarious until someone does something drastic when they weren't seeing things without the luxury of not being affected by one substance, or another. Or a combination.

"Wasted zombie" isn't how all people act when they're stoned. Some have been using it for long enough that they're used to it and can "act straight". Also, look into "state learning".

From Wiki, "State-dependent learning (state-dependent memory) is a notion that learning and recalling are based on the physiological and mental state of the organism.

It has been very clearly demonstrated that things learned in one environment are best recalled when that environment is reinstated; and, moreover, this applies equally well to “internal” environments (or states) as it does to “external” environments."

Ever talked about this with someone who stopped using something? They often have a hard time remembering things that came easily and that they learned when they were using. I know a guy who's an electrical engineer. He and his wife are doing great- nice home, two great kids who never got into drinking or drugs and they're in a great financial position. He stopped smoking pot by the end of high school because it was taking over his life and he wasn't getting anything done, she still does. She does all kind of goofy things, like wandering off at a large festival, forgetting to do things, doing things that make no sense WRT what she might otherwise do. Fast forward 30+ years after we worked together and he says that "another friend and I are his memory" because he doesn't remember the things we say had occurred years ago. Granted, not everyone remembers things the same way but he's not the only person I know who has problems with his memory.

Too bad it's not possible to know what would have happened if a given person had never started using it and then go back to reality, to compare.

YMMV

[Shooter McKevin]

Originally Posted by JimN

It has been very clearly demonstrated that things learned in one environment are best recalled when that environment is reinstated; and, moreover, this applies equally well to “internal” environments (or states) as it does to “external” environments."

One of my buddies in University was a huge "pot makes you smarter" proponent. The guy was extremely brilliant. 4.0 GPA and had his choice of Med schools. He smoked up to study, and smoked up for exams. I remember him being worried about exams if he didn't toke before hand (because of the context dependent memory theory). Personally, I felt he'd have been even smarter without the weed.

We haven't been in touch since finishing undergrad but I heard he's an MD. I've always been curious if he still smokes a lot, and if so how it's effected his life / career.

[aquaman]

Originally Posted by gid

Jimn - are you saying the folks committed suicide due to the pot / alcohol? The pot / alcohol is not was caused them to do this, it was the underlying issues that were ignored.

I understand your views on pot (and that you quit drinking too) good for your life. IMO you should not prevent someone from staying home and having a smoke if they chose. You seem to think all pot smokers are 'wasted' and dont have a life outside of weed. So narrow minded. I, personally, know several Doctors, very successful business owners, and many other 'wasted' folks who light up.

Personally, I lead a pretty good life. Nice house on the River, a second house on another river (smaller river) three paid for cars, boat, motorcycle (paid for too), two dogs, wife, college degree, go to work every day...I even have a second job during the winter to help a friend out. Been lighting up since 7th grade. I guess, per you, I am just a 'wasted' zombie.

gid......you are the exception and lucky to be so.

it is well documented that pot is a gateway drug that leads to stronger drugs and more frequent use. this is a fact and not my opinion.
pot has also been shown to alter brain activity and has strong links to paranoid/schizophrenic behavior.

pot and alcohol are not the same thing and should not be compared.

expceptions will always be found that smoke pot w/no adverse affects......however the majority of pot smokers are non-starters or the chronic low acheivers.

[Phntmski]

always thought alcohol was as much a gateway drug as anything...

[gid]

Originally Posted by Phntmski

always thought alcohol was as much a gateway drug as anything...

Bingo.

[gid]

Originally Posted by aquaman

gid......you are the exception and lucky to be so.

it is well documented that pot is a gateway drug that leads to stronger drugs and more frequent use. this is a fact and not my opinion.
pot has also been shown to alter brain activity and has strong links to paranoid/schizophrenic behavior.

pot and alcohol are not the same thing and should not be compared.

expceptions will always be found that smoke pot w/no adverse affects......however the majority of pot smokers are non-starters or the chronic low acheivers.

- wrong on the first one - it is the individual who is predisposed to move to harder drugs. How about this thought - IF pot were legal and regulated folks would not be exposed to harder drugs thru a dealer.

- pot changes brain activity while on it...as does other drugs (Caffeine, alcohol, etc) Strong links to paranoid - wow, you do believe the movie Reefer Madness was factual

- majority of pot smokers are your doctors, lawyers, politicians, business folks, very success people. People who get up every day and provide for a family. For every one you can point out that is, 'non-starters or chronic low acheiver' I can show you three that are very successful.

Folks - the majority of our envirnoment is bad for us - food additives, pollution, etc. Heck how many eat fast food every day? Soft drinks? If you ate a Big Mac every day for lunch you will have issues long term. Same can be said for a person who smokes an ounce every day, yes, it will affect you. Life can be good with items in moderation.

[JimN]

Originally Posted by gid

- wrong on the first one - it is the individual who is predisposed to move to harder drugs. How about this thought - IF pot were legal and regulated folks would not be exposed to harder drugs thru a dealer.

- pot changes brain activity while on it...as does other drugs (Caffeine, alcohol, etc) Strong links to paranoid - wow, you do believe the movie Reefer Madness was factual

- majority of pot smokers are your doctors, lawyers, politicians, business folks, very success people. People who get up every day and provide for a family. For every one you can point out that is, 'non-starters or chronic low acheiver' I can show you three that are very successful.

Folks - the majority of our envirnoment is bad for us - food additives, pollution, etc. Heck how many eat fast food every day? Soft drinks? If you ate a Big Mac every day for lunch you will have issues long term. Same can be said for a person who smokes an ounce every day, yes, it will affect you. Life can be good with items in moderation.

An ounce in a day? Wow! That's ambitious!

[aquaman]

Originally Posted by Phntmski

always thought alcohol was as much a gateway drug as anything...

If you are saying alcohol can lead to drug use that is possible, but not really a pattern. Majority of people that use alcohol do not do other recreational drugs.

The pot user will often move-up to stronger drugs and combinations of drugs.

Pot should not be legalized, but should be de-criminalized. Too many resources are being "wasted" enforcing pot use.