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Old 07-10-2012, 08:24 PM
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Perfect Pass (KDW, NN, CS) Settings

All, looking to create a hub for sharing PP settings for newer model MC's. What do the three mean exactly (KDW, NN, CS)? What does each do? What are your settings?

For example, raising KDW does what? Lowering it does what?
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:02 AM
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correct me if i'm wrong...
KDW is your throttle pull rate, how much gas PP will respond with to changes in speed
NN is your sampling filter rate
CS is your "YEAH!" setting, how aggressively PP will engage

I in my experience, if you run lots of ballast, it helps to increase the CS and KDW settings, and decrease the NN setting.

In my 07 star I’m running something like KDW-180/NN-30/CS-930. Holds speed within .2 mph. at the end of the rope I can’t feel any variation in speed whatsoever
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyt View Post
correct me if i'm wrong...
KDW is your throttle pull rate, how much gas PP will respond with to changes in speed
NN is your sampling filter rate
CS is your "YEAH!" setting, how aggressively PP will engage

I in my experience, if you run lots of ballast, it helps to increase the CS and KDW settings, and decrease the NN setting.

In my 07 star I’m running something like KDW-180/NN-30/CS-930. Holds speed within .2 mph. at the end of the rope I can’t feel any variation in speed whatsoever
I thought the NN was the paddel wheel filter setting for if your on a river or something

I think of CS as how close to the set speed the cruise will back off accellerating. With a lower CS, I find the accelleration to reduce sooner than with a higher CS setting. If I crack up the CS, the boat will surge way higher than set speed. (without any ballast)

I wish these parameters can be set for each rider profile. Otherwise we have to find a setting that works with and without ballst.

Here are my settings for my 2012 X25;

KDW =230
NN=70
CS=650
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Last edited by bjames; 07-11-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:54 PM
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I got the following from the attached. The attachment was downloaded from the Perfect Pass web site. Although for 2008/2009 it was the only place I could find an explaination of the settings. Actually, my dealer gave me a hardcopy when I asked about the settings.
KDW (Throttle Pull Rate) – KDW can be changed using up or down keys. The higher the value, the more aggressive the control. Heavy boats may need higher values. Factory setting is about 180. Normal range is 120 – 200.

NN (Paddle Wheel Filter Factor) – NN should be set at 50. The higher the value the more filtering is done. If you feel you boat is surging a little, raise value by 20 or 30.
(Normal range is 50 – 100).

CS (Control Setting) – There is an adjustable control setting (CS), which primarily affects engagement in Wakeboard Mode. 750 is recommended, however, if you feel your boat “overshoots” the target speed too much, you can lower the value a little. Adjustments of 20 at a time is recommended. (Range is 650 - 750).
My original settings were (not sure if these were set by dealer or defaults):
CS=750
KDW=50
NN=120

Current settings:
CS=750
KDW=120
NN=120 <= I this this setting is still not quite correct.

I believe the original settings had NN and KDW wrong. Boat varied speed a little and engaged too soon which caused it to take a while to speed up to the desired setting. I believe I need to raise KDW and lower NN. I raised KDW to 120 and now it engages closer to set speed (actually a little over) but still varies a little I think I now need to lower NN and then continue to fine tune. So still a work in progress. I'll report back when I have the settings dialed in better. If someone has an X-15 and stock ballast with good settings - please let me know!

Boat: 2010 X-15, MCX, stock ballast (kgb=250lbs, port=150lbs, star=150lbs), OJ 522 prop (14.75x15.5)
Attached Images
File Type: pdf DBWMasterCraft_WakeboardPro2008Graphics6_5NgJune2007.pdf (367.7 KB, 194 views)
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  #5  
Old 07-12-2012, 08:30 PM
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I was out last evening and spent some time adjusting the settings. With just the KGB full the following worked well:
CS=690
KDW=180
NN=50
I got the same results as Willyt - Good engagement and held to about .2 MPH. What a difference having these settings correct makes. It was sweeeet!

However, when I filled up all ballast tanks, the speed seemed to wander and PP engaged too early (too slow). I'm believe I need to increase CS and decrease NN in that case. We ran out of time in the evening so I try additional settings with all tanks full next time out.

I also seem to notice that how hard you advance the throttle has a corralation to what value of CS works well. So if you are heavy on the throttle on start a little lower CS keeps it from overshooting. If you are lighter on the start then a little higher CS keeps it from engaging too early and not getting to set point quickly. So it is important that you handle the throttle consistently during the start per your settings.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:33 AM
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yea.. after reading all this i'm pretty sure i have to lower my CS setting. it'll overshoot by a good amount if i'm not really heavily weighted
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneBoatN View Post
However, when I filled up all ballast tanks, the speed seemed to wander and PP engaged too early (too slow). I'm believe I need to increase CS and decrease NN in that case. .

Another reason that it would be nice to be able to save the KDW, CS, NN settings for each rider profile. Differenec between full ballast and empty can required different settings.
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Current: 2009 X-Star, Indmar 6L, 400hp, ZFT3 tower. c/w 1/9 scale R/C PWT X-Star

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2012 X25
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2009 Moomba LSV
2009 Moomba Outback V
2008 Monterey FS180
Pelican 4 set paddle boat
plastic tug boat when I was 4
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  #8  
Old 07-13-2012, 01:48 PM
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I have a 2010 (no touchscreen on that version) with the BIG/Viper along with PP.

The first version of the software had the ability to store the KDW setting with the rider profile. However CS and NN settings were still in the Cruise Settings screen (not sure the exact menu name) if I remember correctly. After an Viper/Big version update KDW was no longer in the rider settings and moved to the Cruise Settings. Originally I did not like that but now I think I prefer it that way - just my preference. The later version update of Big/Viper was an improvement in many other areas.

Actually, I stopped using the rider settings for the most part. The Ballast settings of % full are based upon the amount of time the pumps are run (settings for the ballast pump run time is under a "Ballast Configuration" menu where you set the amount of time to run the pump in minutes that would achieve 100%). I've found this to be inaccurate as the pump may take some time to prime and the impeller effeciency seems to change. Also changing from one rider (say set at 70%) to another rider (say set at 100%) resulted in the tanks not being filled correctly. Rather I just leave the ballast settings for a rider set to zero and then I just fill the ballast to where I want it watching the ballast guages in the Big screen. More often than not I'm just using "No Rider" and setting the speed as desired depending upon who is behind the boat. I ride at 21mph, my son rides ad 22mph and my daugher rides at 16.5mph - easy.

Now, I do actually like the BIG/Viper. You can see Active and Stored/Prior engine faults. You can select the information you want to see on the digital guage screen - I like Depth, water temperature, etc... I like the analog guage screen as well as I can see all the guages I'm interested in a close grouping (Speed, RPM, Water Temp, Oil Pressure).

Also I've been following the posts about the 2012 issues some of you guys have been having and feel bad about your experience. I had some early problems as well but no where as much as you all have been having. I keep hoping to hear that things get resolved soon for you all every time I read one of the posts in those thread.
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  #9  
Old 07-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willyt View Post
yea.. after reading all this i'm pretty sure i have to lower my CS setting. it'll overshoot by a good amount if i'm not really heavily weighted
Same here. When my 11 year old daughter rides it is at zero ballast and ~17mph. In that case, as someone else suggested in another thread, I just control the start through to the point where I'm very near set speed and then engage PP. I find this helps much with the over/under shooting of the set speed without having to change the PP settings.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:19 PM
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Another update on this. A while back I contacted Perfect Pass. My issue was that the boat did well holding speed when I would go over rollers, at which time the boat would drop speed drastically and then take quite some time to return to the set speed.

My X-15 has the paddle wheel mounted about mid-section of the boat, just behind the center drain plug. The person at PP said that this is a common issue with some (many) of the MC boats because of where the paddle wheel is mounted (too far forward). Although I seen a 2012 X-12 and the paddle wheel was mounted just in front of the transmission but behind the gas tank - I wonder why mine is not in that same location.

The PP rep said that NN needs to be higher. I mentioned that one of the PP documents said "NN should be set at 50" as a starting setting. He said that no PP document ever said that. Funny, I got that document off the PP web site; moving on... So I ended up testing NN=125 and then NN=145 each getting better. I'm currently at

CS=750
KDW=90
NN=145

Engagement still seems to overshoot a couple MPH on start-out and I have to wait a bit for the speed to adjust back down. So I think I need to lower CS a bit. Nice thing was that when we hit rollers this past weekend, the boat maintained speed rock steady at no more that 1/2 MPH variance, mostly just 0.2 mph off.

Last edited by GoneBoatN; 10-16-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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