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  #441  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:23 PM
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That McNamara video can't be relied upon as definitive, other than to say he and the others who were recorded were confused. Doesn't exactly sound like the way our military is usually represented, does it? A bunch of audio & video clips, assembled and posted on YouTube isn't exactly what I would call "accurate and with correct context". The stated reasons we went into V-N are dubious WRT the effect of them becoming Communist vs Democratic, but we all know of the great losses.
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  #442  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
Can you elaborate how the 20th amendment relates to my homebrewing? The 20th spells out when the president elect takes office as well as congress.
Sorry, I meant the 22nd Amendment. If he and enough others get their way and term limits are eliminated, we're screwed. The damage from the last 3 years is bad enough.
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  #443  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
That's fine. Hey, maybe I am jaded but here is my perspective.

So, I'm beyond fed up with the establishment and here is why. In no particular order, the Bill of Rights has been shredded. This started under bush cheney, has continued, and has been ramped up. You can now be arrested and charged with a felony for protesting, you can be assassinated if the president says so or held without trial as an american citizen, the cia (which isn't supposed to operate inside the US) taps your phone calls, e-mails, etc., you get stripped searched or fondled at airports which is now starting on trains and busses, VIPER squads are on the road in Tennessee and can pull you over and you can be searched. The attack on our Bill of Rights is the issue for which I hold the most contempt and can go on and on about it.

In my lifetime I have had two cousins fight in two separate wars in the middle east (desert storm early 90s and this latest crap), both of which were/are illegal. We were lied into Iraq this time around, and Afghanistan....why are we still there? Oh, that's right, lithium.

We were lied into Vietnam. The Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened which was the justification into going into that mess. That cost us over 60K lives....just on our side. How that wasn't news when MacNamera came out with that I'll never know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k

Who benefits from this? The military industrial complex. We sure aren't, we are paying for it. My kids are paying for it, and it is all illegal and unconstitutional.

Congress.....do I really need to go down this road? Name me one piece of legislation they have passed in the past 10 years that was to the benefit of the citizens instead of some corporate interest.

So the thing is, it doesn't matter what party is in control. Both parties are spending us into oblivion, they are stripping our civil liberties, and neither will quit. The only difference between the parties are the social issues, which do nothing more than keep us fighting with each other when they are a minor part of the big picture.

Now, here comes a guy that has been speaking the same message for over 30 years; fiscal conservative, strict constitutionalist, believes that government should be out of our lives and livingrooms, believes that the executive should have limited power (since it is in the constitution), doesn't want to go to war without a declaration (you know the LEGAL) way to do it, and doesn't believe in 'executive orders', why, because they are unconstitutional. The guy speaking this message is RON PAUL (and Rand Paul).

Here is a video of Ron Paul in 1988 giving a speech when he ran as a libertarian. Does any of this message sound familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k

Ron Paul has been warning us of our problems for years. Nobody listened because the establishment has labeled him as a quack. Well guess what, everything he has been warning us about is coming true. He warned us about the gold standard, he warned us about the housing bubble (he even told us when it would happen within a couple months), he warned us about inflation, he warned us about the debt, he warned us about our bad monetary system, and he warned us about our foreign policy.

He has been right about all these issues we are seeing today. So now I have to say, how am I supposed to vote for these other guys that are basically the status quo? How can I do that? I would never be able to look my kids in the eye because these other guys are spending our kids country away.

My parents generation sat by while JFK was assassinated because he wouldn't go into Vietnam and then let LBJ take us into Vietnam. They didn't fight to find out what happened to JFK and who was responsible, they just bought what the government told them happened. If you ask somebody from that generation about JFK, they will tell you the cia probably had something to do with it......and they just accept it.

Don't you find it just a little peculiar that the first meeting LBJ had as president, his first meeting was about going to war in Vietnam? Not, we have to figure out what happened to JFK and who did it, it was, when are we going into Vietnam.

So, the establishment hasn't really done us any favors. In fact, they have crippled us. Look at our debt! The other guys won't cut a thing and Ron Paul will right the ship. So, there you have it. I'm sure I missed something along the way, but that is my argument and that is why I started this thread, to get out this very important message. I want to be able to tell my kids what I did to fight for our country, which was to spread the message of liberty.

So.....am I jaded?
The problem with this is that the old saying "Absolute power corrupts, absolutely" has never been more true. When you have people in government who want to stay there, they'll do whatever it takes and that includes illegal and/or immoral acts. The easiest way for them to stay in office is to give the masses what they want and if the masses have come to believe that they need what the government is handing out, they sure as he!! won't turn it down. When someone comes along and decides that the handouts should stop, the masses will do anything necessary to keep that from happening.

A few years ago, I commented "keeping people unhealthy, uneducated and dependent on government is no way to run a country" and not long after, I added "unless you want to stay in office". My original comment was wrong because I was speaking from the POV of the people who think small gov't, less intrusion in our lives, less Pork and fewer entitlement programs is the right way for our country to operate. When I considered it from the POV of government, I added the rest. THEY gave people what was needed to become dependent. They, through the FDA, told us what to eat and in what quantities. THEY told us what they wanted us to learn. At this point, the majority of the country either couldn't compete with students from other countries if they wanted to, or the ones who are intelligent enough are so focused on a narrow range of details that they can't see what's going on. Some are always looking around to see what's coming at them. Many don't know why we're heading in the wrong direction. When government puts the interests of industry ahead of the needs of the people, the country is boned. They may say it's in our best interest, but that's only their stated view.
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  #444  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Sorry, I meant the 22nd Amendment. If he and enough others get their way and term limits are eliminated, we're screwed. The damage from the last 3 years is bad enough.
No offense Jim, but that is a long shot. And, don't speak as if the reublicans didn't have their hands in this mess. Both parties are at fault. It is no surprise that every secretary of the treasury has come from goldman-sachs regardless of party in charge. Wasn't baby-bush in office when the bail-outs began? I believe I remember a meeting heavily covered by the press where the then campaigning obama and mccain rushed back to Washington for free press coverage of them getting involved in the start of the bail outs?
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  #445  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
The problem with this is that the old saying "Absolute power corrupts, absolutely" has never been more true. When you have people in government who want to stay there, they'll do whatever it takes and that includes illegal and/or immoral acts. The easiest way for them to stay in office is to give the masses what they want and if the masses have come to believe that they need what the government is handing out, they sure as he!! won't turn it down. When someone comes along and decides that the handouts should stop, the masses will do anything necessary to keep that from happening.

A few years ago, I commented "keeping people unhealthy, uneducated and dependent on government is no way to run a country" and not long after, I added "unless you want to stay in office". My original comment was wrong because I was speaking from the POV of the people who think small gov't, less intrusion in our lives, less Pork and fewer entitlement programs is the right way for our country to operate. When I considered it from the POV of government, I added the rest. THEY gave people what was needed to become dependent. They, through the FDA, told us what to eat and in what quantities. THEY told us what they wanted us to learn. At this point, the majority of the country either couldn't compete with students from other countries if they wanted to, or the ones who are intelligent enough are so focused on a narrow range of details that they can't see what's going on. Some are always looking around to see what's coming at them. Many don't know why we're heading in the wrong direction. When government puts the interests of industry ahead of the needs of the people, the country is boned. They may say it's in our best interest, but that's only their stated view.
Then I guess we are boned because all the other guys are for industry instead of the people.....except Ron Paul.
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  #446  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
That McNamara video can't be relied upon as definitive, other than to say he and the others who were recorded were confused. Doesn't exactly sound like the way our military is usually represented, does it? A bunch of audio & video clips, assembled and posted on YouTube isn't exactly what I would call "accurate and with correct context". The stated reasons we went into V-N are dubious WRT the effect of them becoming Communist vs Democratic, but we all know of the great losses.
McNamara admitting the Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened is well documented in many sources, trying to discredit it because I happened to pull a Youtube clip doesn't make it any less true.

It was the easy way to go to war for the MIC to make more money.
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  #447  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:08 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck0sF5wnH4Q

At 0:50 there is the proof from my second favorite man about McNamara..........Oops, this is a Youtube video, I guess it isn't true.
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  #448  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
No offense Jim, but that is a long shot. And, don't speak as if the reublicans didn't have their hands in this mess. Both parties are at fault. It is no surprise that every secretary of the treasury has come from goldman-sachs regardless of party in charge. Wasn't baby-bush in office when the bail-outs began? I believe I remember a meeting heavily covered by the press where the then campaigning obama and mccain rushed back to Washington for free press coverage of them getting involved in the start of the bail outs?
If you have read many of my posts re: our country's problems, you would notice that I haven't been particularly kind to the Right, either. This kind of thing doesn't come from one side and it never will- people will try to pull a fast one any time they see an opportunity and wealth, level of power or political party have nothing to do with it.
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  #449  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
If you have read many of my posts re: our country's problems, you would notice that I haven't been particularly kind to the Right, either. This kind of thing doesn't come from one side and it never will- people will try to pull a fast one any time they see an opportunity and wealth, level of power or political party have nothing to do with it.
Well here is my apology for inferring that you only blame the democrats. Most people who blame the current crooks are elephants.
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  #450  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck0sF5wnH4Q

At 0:50 there is the proof from my second favorite man about McNamara..........Oops, this is a Youtube video, I guess it isn't true.
I'm not saying it can't be factual but when I see some of the videos there, and I really don't think there's much reason to put up a video of someone getting a cyst squeezed, but when ANYONE can compile a bunch of video clips and call it "This Really Happened!", I'm not going to trust it much unless I was there to see it.
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