Go Back   TeamTalk > Maintenance Tips, How-tos and Refurbishing Topics > Audio/Stereo

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-09-2014, 12:42 PM
andersonmc andersonmc is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2013
Boat: 2001 X star
Location: Northwest
Posts: 209
general question

I have a arc audio 4150 4 channel amp. I'm running 2 pairs of xs 650s right now at 80 watts rms. My question is can i possibly run 4 6x9 tower speakers as well?
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2014, 12:43 PM
Aric'sX15's Avatar
Aric'sX15 Aric'sX15 is offline
MC Maniac
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: 85' S&S
Location: DFDUB
Posts: 4,640
So 8 speakers total off this one amp? if so no.
__________________
"if one day the speed kills me, do not cry because i was smiling." -Paul Walker
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2014, 12:51 PM
andersonmc andersonmc is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2013
Boat: 2001 X star
Location: Northwest
Posts: 209
Figured i couldn't but thought i would ask.

So if i use this amp with my 650s only how should I ajust amp to tune? PO had different set up.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2014, 01:04 PM
Rossterman's Avatar
Rossterman Rossterman is offline
MC Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2012
Boat: 2001 prostar 205V
Location: Westcoast
Posts: 692
you can run up to 2 ohm load x 4 channels (per the specs on their website). So you can effectively add two speakers (provided they are 4 ohm versions or higher) to each of the 4 channels for a total of 8. Need them to be wired in parallel to achieve 2 ohms and the 160 watt per channel rating. I have the XXK 5150 in our boat and running two speakers per channel x 4 channels just fine.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-2014, 05:47 PM
swatguy's Avatar
swatguy swatguy is offline
MC Devotee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Boat: 2000 X-star
Location: Midwest, Chicago
Posts: 1,805
Spending on the specs yes you can
Each channel on that arc can handle a 2 ohm load. Meaning if each of your speakers are 4 ohms then you can run 2 of each channel. So you could run 8 speakers off a 4 channel amp if the wattage was big enough.

However because you're 650's require so much power running 2 per channel would kill you're output and you would get nothing in return for doing that. Not to mention you will be pushing that amp to its limits everytime you power it up so it's not going to last
__________________
Current: 2008 Super Air 210TE

Previous : 2000 X-Star, 3000lbs ballast, LTR 330, Acme 1235 14.5X14.25prop. 1200 hrs of flawless fun
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-10-2014, 02:33 PM
David Analog's Avatar
David Analog David Analog is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Boat: N/A
Location: Texas
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersonmc View Post
I have a arc audio 4150 4 channel amp. I'm running 2 pairs of xs 650s right now at 80 watts rms. My question is can i possibly run 4 6x9 tower speakers as well?
The answer to the original question is 'yes' and 'no'.
You can safely run all four channels at a 2-ohm load per the manufacturer specs.
But you run into limitations. First, the amplifier is UNlikely to deliver it's individual channel rated power with all channels loaded down to the minimum impedance simultaneously. You tend to hit the wall on the power supply side (the internal DC to AC to DC switching power supply). Second, you could run into thermal problems on a July/August afternoon.
I would feel much better about it if all 2-ohm channels where driving inboat coaxials highpass exclusively. But tower speakers usually get driven harder as do subwoofers so I am less confident with this mix. Also, an amplifier operates less efiiciently at a 2-ohm load which compounds the thermal issue.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-10-2014, 02:40 PM
FoggyNogginz's Avatar
FoggyNogginz FoggyNogginz is online now
MC Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Boat: 1998 PS205, then a 2002 X9, and now a 2012 X14V
Location: Center Hill Lake & Old Hickory
Posts: 707
David nailed it. You can...but you'll likely be disappointed either immediately (poor sound) or eventually (heat). Finally, it would be nearly impossible to set your crossovers right in that scenario...IMHO.
__________________
----------------------------------

"KC"

Cmon...lemme just push one button...
- Red X14V on Center Hill & Old Hickory lakes in TN -
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-10-2014, 03:17 PM
bsloop bsloop is offline
MC Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Boat: 91' MC 240sc
Location: Perry Lake, KS Lake of Ozarks
Posts: 591
Both good points above. Yes you can but sound may be slightly less than ideal, especially as David mentions, the 6x9's are heavier on the surface area and often asked to produce lower frequencies. Larger movements take more energy which may tax the power supply.

The good news is, ARC is a quality power supply and design to start with plus has an internal fan.
I have run a Rockford T600.4 bridged to 2 ch @ 2ohm (not company recommended) for 4 summers with no problem. It does get hot much faster than my other T600.2's bridged to 1 ch @ 4ohm. With a fan blowing on it, I have never had it thermal.

Make sure you have 4 ga power wire.
Heat is the biggest killer of electronics (except water), IF you are going to do it, I would still run an external fan. 12v from auto parts store will work.
Of course tune gains and cross over points independent on front and rear channels. May want to be a little conservative and set the crossover a little higher.
It will work but if you like to play it hard, more power would be better.
__________________
1991 MariStar 240sc, 454, tower, WetSounds, Krypt and Rockford Fosgate
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-10-2014, 06:43 PM
Rossterman's Avatar
Rossterman Rossterman is offline
MC Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2012
Boat: 2001 prostar 205V
Location: Westcoast
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Analog View Post
The answer to the original question is 'yes' and 'no'.
You can safely run all four channels at a 2-ohm load per the manufacturer specs.
But you run into limitations. First, the amplifier is UNlikely to deliver it's individual channel rated power with all channels loaded down to the minimum impedance simultaneously. You tend to hit the wall on the power supply side (the internal DC to AC to DC switching power supply). Second, you could run into thermal problems on a July/August afternoon.
I would feel much better about it if all 2-ohm channels where driving inboat coaxials highpass exclusively. But tower speakers usually get driven harder as do subwoofers so I am less confident with this mix. Also, an amplifier operates less efiiciently at a 2-ohm load which compounds the thermal issue.
David,
Your comment is interesting. Where do you derive this conclusion from? Most reviews I've read for this amp indicate it is a US made top quality amp that is stone reliable and has top notch internals. Reviews of the amp and their independent lab tests show 10% to 15% underrated compared to actual output at 2 or 4 ohms and excellent sound and low THD.

In my experience (running a xxk5150) is they do get warm (compared to class D) but never had a lick of problems with this amp in the dead of summer cranked up full, sounds great (I am getting old and my hearing sucks though). This amp also has an internal fan which many others do not. If the OP is worried about reliability, will allow you is you to send them back for $160 to Arc and they will completely rebuild it ( although I have never read a post of one that has failed).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-10-2014, 08:30 PM
David Analog's Avatar
David Analog David Analog is offline
TT Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Boat: N/A
Location: Texas
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossterman View Post
David,
Your comment is interesting. Where do you derive this conclusion from? Most reviews I've read for this amp indicate it is a US made top quality amp that is stone reliable and has top notch internals. Reviews of the amp and their independent lab tests show 10% to 15% underrated compared to actual output at 2 or 4 ohms and excellent sound and low THD.

In my experience (running a xxk5150) is they do get warm (compared to class D) but never had a lick of problems with this amp in the dead of summer cranked up full, sounds great (I am getting old and my hearing sucks though). This amp also has an internal fan which many others do not. If the OP is worried about reliability, will allow you is you to send them back for $160 to Arc and they will completely rebuild it ( although I have never read a post of one that has failed).
It is a good amplifier....no doubt. But you are missing the point. The comments apply to virtually all amplifiers and test reports from independent reviewers, such as PasMag, prove the following statements, even when Arc Audio amplifiers specifically are tested.
In general:
Amplifiers are less efficient at 2-ohms. Class AB amplifiers are inefficient period.
Amplifiers lose power when ALL channels are tested versus one channel at a time. However, there is no stipulation that ratings must be taken with all channels driven. They rarely are.
Often fan cooling is a design that lowers the production cost. This allows for less heat sink mass which is very expensive. An amplifier can run a narrow extrusion down both sides or just on the bottom but use a stamped steel top where there is considerably more surface area. Fan-cooled amplifiers never run as hot but they are out of commission if the fan ever goes out.
Amplifiers deliver less power over the entire audio bandwidth than they do at the typical 1 kHz testing frequency.
Amplifiers deliver less and less power, unless regulated, as the supply voltage drops.

So as I stated in my original post, I feel good about it with this or many other 4-channel amplifiers, if running eight 4-ohm 6.5" coaxial speakers in-boat and highpass. Tower speakers, not necessarily 6X9s, and subwoofers typically get worked much harder so when they are in the mix I may have reservations. I'm looking at it more clinically and independent of brand or ownership. Your direct experience may be different. A northern versus southern location can make a difference. Here in Texas, an observers locker can be 145 degrees in August. How someone uses their system can be very different also. Just erring on the side of caution and providing multiple considerations.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 PM.