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-   -   2nd Amp for 2007 X-2 Stereo System?? (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=51780)

jovoth 11-24-2012 03:10 PM

2nd Amp for 2007 X-2 Stereo System??
 
In the future I am looking at adding two more JL Audio tower speakers to the 2 that I already have. I am wondering if I need a second amp along with the JL amp that came with the boat out of the factory?? Or will the factory JL amp be enough to power the speakers and sub in the boat plus 4 tower speakers?? If I do need a second amp what would be my best option??

MLA 11-24-2012 03:52 PM

I would highly recommend a 2 chnl or 4 chnl amp thats dedicated just for the soon to be 4 tower pods.

jovoth 11-25-2012 09:47 AM

Any specific brand of amp you would recommend to run the tower speakers?? How powerful of an amp??

MLA 11-25-2012 04:38 PM

Tons of quality amp brands, both marine on non-marine. I would go with a very efficient full-range Class-D or Class G/H over an old-school Class-A/B. For a 4 chnl, I would look for one that will deliver 125-150 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohm at least. For a 2 chnl, look for one that will deliver 250-300 watts RMS x 2 @ 2 ohm at least.

Kyle 11-25-2012 05:05 PM

What amp do you have running the 2 tower speakers now?

Does that amp run any of the cabin speakers?



The JL speakers M7.7's run on 100w rms, since there is a very wide selection of amps out there how the boat is wired currently will be a huge deciding factor.

Personally I would try to put every speaker on its own channel. A lot of guys like to run speakers in series or in parallel. This starts fooling with ohms, and how efficient the speaker operates. If you start trying to cram 10# into a 1# sack your speakers will be quality speakers that sound like crap.

For example: you have an amp with 150w rms per channel and you run 2 speakers off of that one channel. Ok that's fine to run 100w JL 7.7 on 75w and that will be loud but it will not be run at 4 ohms that speaker is designed to do. Yes the speaker will work in 2ohms and will work in 8ohms but they are designed to run in 4ohms.


There are a LOT of folks that will disagree with me but there is a reason the manufacture company recommends a certain ohm, impedance level, xover, continuous power rating, peak power max, recommended rms, etc. All of those effect clarity and efficiency of the speaker.

It's real easy to make something loud. Making it real loud and crystal clear being efficient is a whole different ball game.

hbomb 11-25-2012 06:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Have finally "finished" effectively doing what has been said....

We have a 2007 X2 and we installed a second amp.

The set up now is we have the factory JL Audio M6450 6 ch powering the 4 cabin speakers (ch 1-4) and sub (ch5-6).
We installed a M4300 to power the 4 tower speakers (came with 2 and we added to extra cans) each speaker on its own channel.

We certainly have noise, particularly the 4 tower speakers but we also have clarity...... we predominatley play music with bass but when I was setting up and testing I used, to the disgust of a few, a cd I had with classical music - the instruments where super sharp ........ that CD has now been disposed of and we are back to the "doof doof" sound.......

Having shared this with you I need to also share something else.......

When I embarked on this project earlier in the year, I wrote into the forum and received some great advice from some great guys but there is a member on this site who gave me a huge amount of advice. His knowledge was fantastic and right on the mark and gave we a number of options which have resulted in a system which is both loud and quality.

THE MEMBER IS SWATGUY - THANKS MATE TRULY APPRECIATE THE GREAT ADVICE AND KNOWLEDGE YOU SHARED WITH ME - EVERYTHING YOU PUT ON PAPER HAS WORKED BEAUTIFULLY!

THE MEMBER IS THRALL - DO APPRECIATE YOUR CONTRIBUTION ALSO



Have attached a photo of the boat - will post later in the week, pictures of the instal.......

Thrall 11-26-2012 11:19 AM

Thanks hbomb!
jovoth, I'm guessing the existing single amp you have is a JL M6450 or 6600 if it's pushing 6 speakers in OE configuration. Does your boat have a sub? If so, then you're really starving the speakers for power right now.
Assuming no sub and a 6 channel amp in the boat. I'll echo what the others have said, YES you need a 2nd amp. Kinda need one now with 2 tower speakers.
If you do not have a sub or plan on adding one, I would use all the channels on your current amp to run the cockpit speakers. 2 channels to the front spkrs and bridge ch 3/4 and 5/6 to the rear cockpit spkrs. It will make a big difference in sound volume IN the boat with plenty of watts to the rear cockpit spkrs.
New amp for the tower. 4channel means running 4pr of spkr wire up the tower (probably only 2 pr of wire to the tower now) if you want the amp seeing a 4ohm load. Or bridge 2ch each on the amp and run each pr of tower spkrs wird in parallel. This will tax the amp more as the lower the impedance load the amp sees the harder it works, but good quality amps are almost all 2 ohm stable. Same goes for a 2 ch amp, wire each pr of spkrs in parallel = 2ohm load on the amp.
I agree with what Kyle said regarding giving each spkr it's own channel, however if you do it correctly, you will still get great sound quality out of the speakers. It's just not as fool proof as 1:1 spkr to channel. WIth the right setup, one of the premier towboat stereo guys uses a 1 channel 750W amp to push 4 speakers in a series/parallel configuration. It can be done and done correctly, just requires more of an understanding of what you're doing so you don't have "loud"" spkrs that sound like crap.
CHeck out this site. www.bcae1.com It will help you understand mobile audio from amp selection to how to wire everything up, selecting wire size, fuses, etc.

Now regarding your question, the "best" options are kinda expensive. JL, Zapco, Wetsounds, Boston Acoustic are some of the top mfrs of amps. In general if you're going to go with 2 pr of spkrs wired in parallel (2ohm load), walk past the cheaper amps and get a top quality amp that is 2 ohm stable. If going 1:1 then find a decent 4 channel amp that puts out 125-150W RMS per channel. Either way, the JL 7.7 speakers are capable of handling this power and will seem like a better bang for the buck if you give them enough clean power to reach their potential.
Regarding the actual install, search back thru the Audio/Stereo furum here as well as the General maint forum. Lots of good info, experiences, mounting options, etc. In the X2 you CAN get 3 good size (physical size) amps mounted where your single amp is without building an amp board. Part of the challenge is making a clean install too.

MLA 11-26-2012 02:08 PM

Jovoth,

What tower do you have? Ive done tower speaker installs on Mastercrafts back to 07 that already had 4 pair of 14ga fished in the tower: 2 pair of green and 2 pair of purple each stubbed out just inside the factory speaker mount. If yours is already pre wired, then you can easily go with either a 2 chnl or 4 chnl.

Almost every quality 2 chnl out there today is 2 ohm stable and will easily handle four 4 ohm speakers, 2 wired in parallel on each chnl. The key to wiring multiple speakers per chnl is to keep the amp running with a load it can safely run, using like speakers and driving the speakers with an amp that will deliver the proper net power to each speaker at that given impedance. There will not be any sound quality issues.
Too low of an impedance and the amp will go into protect mode. Too high and the amps output may be too low for the speakers to deliver to their potential.
Dissimilar speaker wired together will not divide the power evenly
Not enough 2 ohm watts output to drive 2 speakers and we tend to overcompensate with the volume knob. This can lead to a clipped signal from the head-unit to the amp, which the amp will then reproduce.

I'm all for a single speaker per chnl. but no worries about using a 2 chnl amp running at 2 ohm x 2, as long as its the right amp.

If your current setup is anything like the X-80 I did this summer, the 2 towers were just piggy-backed with 2 in-boats on chnls 3 and 4. We pulled those wires out and relocated to the new tower amp and retuned the 6 chnl in-boat amp.

jovoth 11-26-2012 07:10 PM

Thank you all so much for your advice!! I will admit that I am clueless when it comes to stereo systems so I have learned a lot from reading your posts!! Now to answer your questions.

I'm not sure what amp I have but I think it is the M6450. It is the one that came with the boat out of the factory. I bought the boat in September and haven't had a lot of time to spend in it before I had to put it away for the winter. The boat does have the JL 10 inch sub from factory. As far as how the amp is wired to the speakers I'm not sure. The tower is the zero flex and I don't know how the tower is wired.

hbomb, I would like to go about setting my system up like yours so if you could post the pictures of your install I'd really appreciate it!! I see I can get the JL M4300 for $260 off Amazon. I would like to keep the 4 tower speakers on their own channel.

Again, thanks all for your responses!! If you have other advice I would gladly take it!!

hbomb 11-26-2012 09:32 PM

Jovoth....... I am sure SWATGUY will not mind but I will send you across his and my notes as well as a diagram I did which gives you a basic of how it is put together.
Will post some photos early next week as the boat is at our holiday house on the Murray River and I will not be there until this wekeend
We are in Australia and we are now coming into our summer....... ...
Send me thru a PM with your email and I will send it across to you........
In case I do forget......... the tower plug on the drivers side remains unchanged (for lights etc) - 6 pin from memory??? however, on the passenger side, I ran an additonal 4 pin plug/loom (same as what is there) so now there are two 4 pin plugs. The additional plug/loom was sourced locally.


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