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-   -   Replacing engine, what will fif? (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=51483)

Surfer 10-25-2012 07:45 AM

Replacing engine, what will fif?
 
Hi,

my 1995 MC ProStar 190 has got 2100 hours. This summer problems, first it seemed only head gasket problem, but now opening the engine, seems that I should replace bearings, some machinery work, cooling tunnels not in so good shape, etc.

Replacing the whole engine could be not much more expensive.

Any idea is there anything special in these MC marine engines? Or I can just pick up marine base engine and put the external parts from the old engine? The Indmar programmed EFI computer will fit? Special camshaft etc. in the engine??

The engine is Chevy 350, EFI, 1:1 transmission, 275 hp. This was the base option in 1995.

How about this? http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-...ent-p-122.html

Of if you know a place to order a new engine that will fit?

Thanks a lot for any answers! :)

mikeg205 10-25-2012 08:13 AM

The marine engines have different cams and a number of other parts to allow it to last under the loads a boat puts on an engine.

The ECM will have to retain it's harness and components to allow it to work. Tuning ECM to new installation will take expertise and software allowing changes to be flashed to its memory.

Contact this TT member http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...=diesel+engine

maybe you could drop in a diesel...

Rossterman 10-25-2012 08:45 AM

Other then stainless head gaskets, brass freeze plugs, and cam they are the same as a standard vortech engine. Engine castings, crank, rods, and pistons arent anything special. You could go with a direct marine replacement for a simple fix or buy something with more stout components from summit racing. They typically sell engines with 4bolt mains, steel cranks, forged pistons for slightly more than the marine basic replacement engine. Heres a couple to consider:

Gm vortech: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...0282/overview/

Or 383 stroker!: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ml...make/chevrolet

JimN 10-25-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg205 (Post 886671)
The marine engines have different cams and a number of other parts to allow it to last under the loads a boat puts on an engine.

The ECM will have to retain it's harness and components to allow it to work. Tuning ECM to new installation will take expertise and software allowing changes to be flashed to its memory.

Contact this TT member http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...=diesel+engine

maybe you could drop in a diesel...

Most engines just come off of the same assembly line as the car/truck engines and, while marine engines run at higher RPM for longer than cars, it's never as much of a load as tires hooking up with the road from a standstill unless the prop strikes an object. The ECM shouldn't need much tweaking unless a lot more air is being shoved in, although I do agree that the calibration should be specific to the hull/setup.

JimN 10-25-2012 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer (Post 886669)
Hi,

my 1995 MC ProStar 190 has got 2100 hours. This summer problems, first it seemed only head gasket problem, but now opening the engine, seems that I should replace bearings, some machinery work, cooling tunnels not in so good shape, etc.

Replacing the whole engine could be not much more expensive.

Any idea is there anything special in these MC marine engines? Or I can just pick up marine base engine and put the external parts from the old engine? The Indmar programmed EFI computer will fit? Special camshaft etc. in the engine??

The engine is Chevy 350, EFI, 1:1 transmission, 275 hp. This was the base option in 1995.

How about this? http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-...ent-p-122.html

Of if you know a place to order a new engine that will fit?

Thanks a lot for any answers! :)

Call Jasper. I used their engines several times and they not only have a direct-replacement for your engine, they come with a 3 year warranty.

Yours doesn't have a special cam or anything else. First thing I would do is call a speed shop in your area to find out what they can do. It's likely that you could get the same thing for less that $2799. All of the accessories will bolt on and the harness goes on the same as your engine.

As long as you're not doing anything that's really custom, it won't be hard to re-power without a lot of screwing around.

I would recommend using a GM reman engine but they specifically state that marine use doesn't come with a warranty (maybe they changed that since I read their brochure).

Surfer 10-29-2012 06:11 AM

Hi,

thanks for the answers!

So my original engine has got a cam, which is stardard in GM marine engine?
-> Indmar EFI computer is programmed for this.
Correct?

Rossterman, you meant in comparison to vortech car engine cam is different in marine engine?
JimN, yes I just need basic replacement, no customization.

If so, the GM base marine engine will do ok? Even the replacement has got a roller cam,
as the original engine has got flat tappet cam.
Ok, flat tappet cam is maybe an option, but roller cam would be better I understand; E.g. a bit more power.

The valve timings seem to be different with different cams, that is why I am wondering if the original EFI computer would do ok with roller cam?

I do not know EFI working principles yet so closely, and I am not able to tune EFI computer, and don't want to buy a new one.


Thanks!

Pasi

mikeg205 10-29-2012 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimN (Post 886680)

Yours doesn't have a special cam or anything else. First thing I would do is call a speed shop in your area to find out what they can do. It's likely that you could get the same thing for less that $2799. All of the accessories will bolt on and the harness goes on the same as your engine.

Really? So Indmar basically took a 350 put on a marinized ECM-other electronics, marine exhaust manifold and riser, marine alternator,marine starter Johnson water pump, spark arrestor and added that 2 stage electric fuel pump?

The only reason I ask is because of all the other things I read about marine engines having different cams and other things to deal with engine load differences from road to marine use. This is great information. :D

JimN 10-29-2012 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfer (Post 887319)
Hi,

thanks for the answers!

So my original engine has got a cam, which is stardard in GM marine engine?
-> Indmar EFI computer is programmed for this.
Correct?

Rossterman, you meant in comparison to vortech car engine cam is different in marine engine?
JimN, yes I just need basic replacement, no customization.

If so, the GM base marine engine will do ok? Even the replacement has got a roller cam,
as the original engine has got flat tappet cam.
Ok, flat tappet cam is maybe an option, but roller cam would be better I understand; E.g. a bit more power.

The valve timings seem to be different with different cams, that is why I am wondering if the original EFI computer would do ok with roller cam?

I do not know EFI working principles yet so closely, and I am not able to tune EFI computer, and don't want to buy a new one.


Thanks!

Pasi

If you call Jasper, they'll ask for some numbers that are on the block- they're usually in the rear and could be hidden by the transmission/bell housing. Sometimes, they're on the heads. Using this info, they can tell which engine you have. One easy way to tell if it's a Vortec or non-Vortec engine is by looking at how the intake manifold bolts go in- if they're perpendicular to the head/intake manifold mating surface, it's non-Vortec. The Vortec bolts go in vertically.

This info will also tell them which cam it has and, having replaced engines in MC boats of similar vintage to yours, they did get it right. All that was needed was to remove the accessories from the old engine and transfer them to the new engine. The roller cam isn't necessarily as different WRT valve timing just because it's a roller cam- it's because of a lot more than that. The air/exhaust characteristics of Vortec heads are different from non-Vortec and changing the cam allows more/faster intake and exhaust gas movement. If you get the same kind of block as the OEM, you won't need to make any changes to the calibration.

You can recover a bit of power by using roller rocker arms, too. This adds about 15 HP. Roller lifter/cam adds a similar amount and both allow more power because they add less resistance through friction. The intake manifold may be another place to look for more power but you might have to watch out for excessive height- some intake manifolds are a lot taller than what came with it, although you may be able to find a newer TBI manifold from an MC (a little better than the original TBI, but not a tremendous difference).

JimN 10-29-2012 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg205 (Post 887320)
Really? So Indmar basically took a 350 put on a marinized ECM-other electronics, marine exhaust manifold and riser, marine alternator,marine starter Johnson water pump, spark arrestor and added that 2 stage electric fuel pump?

The only reason I ask is because of all the other things I read about marine engines having different cams and other things to deal with engine load differences from road to marine use. This is great information. :D

It really depends on what was spec'd by the application designer. If a stock engine will work, there's really no reason to go beyond that and with the ability of MC/Indmar to customize the calibration, they're able to get the performance needed for each hull.

Surfer 10-29-2012 08:43 AM

Hi,

JimN, thanks a lot!
Yes, the engine is non-Vortec.

Ok, I might ask for price of roller rocker arms for the base engine, if it is an option and maybe for newer TBI manifold. But MC did this type of engine only 1995 - 1997, after that MPI?

So EFI computer just "puts gas in", when crackshaft position sensor says so? When and how fast the valve is opening, fully open, closing and closed, does not matter?
Craph for roller cam vent opening is more rectangular, as flat tapped cam craph is more parabolic, as in time vs. vent opening x-y scale.


BR,

Pasi


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