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View Full Version : Need help - barefoot deepwater start


wiltok
06-22-2006, 11:36 PM
I know there are some experienced footers here. I have been barefooting for years - mainly off a kneeboard. I now have a real barefoot suit and am trying to learn deepwater starts. My only success so far is flushing half the lake through my nose. I am working with a boom - using a short rope with a barefoot handle. Arching my back on the start, riding on my butt for a little (while which is a very unstable position). I can't seem to stablize without falling. I am particularly interested in advice on speeds - generally speaking what speed do you sit up, take feet off the rope, go into the three point sitting position, etc... My driver is not very experienced at pulling b'foot - so I'm sure that is not helping. Any advice is appreciated - I'm heading out tomorrow (Friday) morning at 8:00 AM to go at it again.

Hoosier Bob
06-22-2006, 11:40 PM
It has been a long while but the driver was the big part with me! I went from a kneeboard also to deepwater. 100' line and a nice suit worked well. At the time I was much lighter but would "Cheek" it out at around 28-30 MPH and once planted the driver would bury it to around 38-40. I am sure you will get some solid advice here but one thing I believe is correct is the driver has to know their role. ;)

Mag_Red
06-23-2006, 12:15 AM
Here's a sequence of one of our footers showing how it's done......

Mag_Red
06-23-2006, 12:16 AM
then this...........

Mag_Red
06-23-2006, 12:17 AM
to this position...........

Mag_Red
06-23-2006, 12:18 AM
and he's up! :D

erkoehler
06-23-2006, 12:23 AM
I'm honored :D

sanjuan23
06-23-2006, 01:35 AM
Go Erk Go!!

peason
06-23-2006, 01:53 AM
Driver is very important. Try reading this link, it sums up everything I would tell a new footer. When I am on long line, I have the driver signal with thier had in the air that I am up to my barefoot speed. This link has a lot of good advice.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~tdreyer/howto/front_deep.htm

92 190 PS
06-23-2006, 08:32 AM
Erk nailing the tumble up above is quite nice, but if you're just learning I'd go for a straight deep water.

Been footing for about 20 years now, but a couple things over the last couple years have made my deeps much more enjoyable. First, get a pair of shorties (padded shorts). You can't imagine the difference riding with a pair of shorts compared to not....Second thing I've just picked up recently is when you get up on your cheeks and are trying to get your balance try keeping the toes of one of your wakeside foot on the rope as you take your other foot off to get it set to put in...This also will help you steer as you get out long line and need to get out of the wake. The key to riding your cheeks is slow and deliberate movements. Once you get your balance with one foot off the rope then you can get comfortable taking the other off....Once you get to where you're comfortable riding on your butt you're gold. Just remember set the feet in soft and let the boat pull you out just as if you were sitting on the board and you'll be good to go....Good luck....

Laurel_Lake_Skier
06-23-2006, 09:21 AM
You might try lifting the boom fairly high. The upward pull helps lift you out of the water to give you a feel for the process. Have your driver pull you up like they would a slalom skier to about 30 mph, then as you go to your 3 point roll on the power to your 'footin speed.

One tip to take care of water up the snout.......tape. I have gone to putting a 2 inch or so strip of 3M surgical tape on my nose. Start it in the bottom side and run it over the nostrils sticking it to the sides of your nose. This makes you look like quite the dork but does a great job of keeping the water out. Be a little careful pulling the tape off......it sticks so well I have pulled skin off the sides of my nose a few times.

Good luck..

wiltok
06-23-2006, 09:23 AM
Thanks for all the tips. I'm heading out now - got the day off, not one other boat on the lake, little wind - I'm READY!!

I'll let you know how it goes....

jbfootin
06-23-2006, 09:37 AM
On the boom, due to the rope pulling from such a high angle, most people start to bounce if they keep their feet on the rope too long or have their fee too high. I usually take my feet off as soon as I start to move. As long as you keep your head back, and your feet up, you do not need the rope.

Once you are going 25-30 you will be able to sit up to your butt, but it is actually your lower back. Look at the pic of ERK before he plants his feet. If you are sitting too tall on your butt, instead of being in a lounged or like you are doing a crunch position, you may feel tippy also.

Once the spray is out of your face and you can look around, you are at speed. DO NOT stick your feet in to stand up too fast. I always tell new footers to touch their feet to the water and try to stay in the 3 point. The water will pull your feet under you and you will be standing.

Good luck! :headbang:

brftski
06-23-2006, 10:01 AM
I have never been able to stop the water up the nose problem while doing deep-water starts. It made for a miserable night with sinus pressure. The only thing I found that would help was to stop doing deep-water starts. I like to tumble up. The only advice I could give is when you place your feet in the water let the water push your feet under you to your 3-point stance. Donít try to pull them under you and donít be in a hurry to stand up. My two cents :headbang:

jkski
06-23-2006, 11:18 AM
During your deep up, you will find that there is a "critical window" where water will rush up your nose, but it is a short period of time. To avoid the rush, try holding your breath, locking your chin into your chest, and as soon as you begin to plain, blow out your nose. (You may get a couple of "snot rockets", but you won't have a head full of water.)

wiltok
06-23-2006, 11:27 AM
Just got back - nailed it - TWICE!! (just to make sure it wasn't a fluke!!) Awesome - what a rush! Thanks for all the comments. I realize I was doing a few things wrong yesterday - but having the driver give it more throttle, sitting up sooner and putting my feet on the water when I was starting to bounce all where helpful tips. I wore a nose plug (thing that goes around your nose to block off the water) the first time, second time didn't need it since I was able to get up with minimal flushing!!

Next, I'll try it on the long line!! Made my whole day...

Kevin 89MC
06-23-2006, 11:44 AM
Sweet! I was just about to throw in my 2 cents, but doesn't sound like you need it! Congrats, deep water starts are cool. :headbang: I actually have an easier time doing them long line than off the 5' from the boom. I usually tumble up like Eric when on the 5'. My trick for long line is to say hit it, dunk my head, and then immediately blow gently out my nose. I sometimes end up with snot on the suit, but it's better than water up the nose!
It's definitely different standing up in the wake. Try to get out of the center of the prop wash, to either side, before standing up, it will be much smoother. You don't have to get all the way out past the wake (but that is really nice), just into the "curl" between the prop wash & side of wake. If you have a great driver they can help bump you to the side a bit. It is hard to steer when you're on your butt! It helps to be in the 3 point stance. Good luck, long line is awesome! I may make my inagural run tonight!

chudson
06-23-2006, 11:53 AM
Way to go!!! Something that may help with the water in the snoot thing is after you tell the driver to hit it and before you drop back to arch take a huge breath, then as your plaining out you can start blowing out and breathing again. It all happens so fast you can breath again before you know it. Again good Job . Hey also I like to tell the driver to let you know when you hit 25 mph when you go to the three point, after awhile you 'll just know.

Jorski
06-23-2006, 12:56 PM
One other pointer...this goes for when you are being pulled onto the surface on your back as well as when you are trying to get into a seated three point glide (arse, plus two feet).

Keep the handle on your hips, exactly where your seat belt crosses your lap...the lower the handle, the easier this is.

Once you have a comfortable, three point glide going, then you can slowly let your arms out - I said slooooowly. Then keep your arms straight while you ar getting up onto your feet.

Good Luck!!

Oops. by the time I posted you had already figured it out. SWEEEEEEET!!!!

jbfootin
06-23-2006, 12:59 PM
Sounds like we have anouther one hooked! :firejump: :friday:

wiltok
06-23-2006, 01:46 PM
I always wanted to learn to tumbleturn (not the start - just as you are footin'). Difficulty on scale of 1 to 10??

peason
06-23-2006, 02:09 PM
I too have been working on this, I dont' think it is too hard - I would give it a 5, I just haven't had the devoted time to work on it. The key is keep the handle close to your hip and as you rotate, switch it from hip to hip to slow your rotation - so you don't over rotate. Practicing on land will help get the technique down.

Footin
06-23-2006, 02:11 PM
In my opinion the tumble turn is one of the easier tricks but looks really cool if pulled off. The hardest part is getting up the nerve to do it.
Remember to hold the handle close to your hip.

peason
06-23-2006, 02:13 PM
BTW - awesome job at nailing the deep on the short line. Now go get it for the long line. I agree footing is a rush!

tex
06-23-2006, 03:25 PM
Keeping water out of your nose. Push your head as far back as possible. Try to touch it to the bottom of the lake and wait for speed. Blow out through your nose as you sit up. I agree that they are easier long line. I don't do them on the pig tail. I always swing out! It's alot more fun and easier on the body! Congrats!

Kevin 89MC
06-23-2006, 05:36 PM
IMHO tumbleturns are an easy barefoot trick. This is where the 5' line really helps. I could do them all day long on the 5', but struggled a bit learning long line. Caught my shoulder 3/4 of the way around. Remeber to keep that shoulder up! I think the 5' line height did it automatically. I'd have thought I would have learned that after one or two spills, but no, apparently I'm a slow learner sometimes!

Hoosier Bob
06-23-2006, 06:39 PM
Tumble the same as Turtle Roll? I barefoot at one time but not too often and no lingo learned. The Turtle Roll was fun and best after letting go. :D

scott88prostar
06-24-2006, 02:17 AM
Keeping water out of your nose. Push your head as far back as possible. Try to touch it to the bottom of the lake and wait for speed. Blow out through your nose as you sit up. I agree that they are easier long line. I don't do them on the pig tail. I always swing out! It's alot more fun and easier on the body! Congrats!

Thats the ticket Tex....chin to your chest? Are you nuts!...Good to see a post that has good advice....no BS.....Where are the great mechanical posts from Jimn....just a thought....is anybody else tired of people posting just to see there name on the board...I think this board has gone downhill, thanks to the folks that want see there post counts :friday: sorry Ive been drinking...but I will be sober and crashing at the gates when the sun comes up :woohoo:

erkoehler
06-24-2006, 02:19 AM
Thats the ticket Tex....chin to your chest? Are you nuts!...Good to see a post that has good advice....no BS.....Where are the great mechanical posts from Jimn....just a thought....is anybody else tired of people posting just to see there name on the board...I think this board has gone downhill, thanks to the folks that want see there post counts :friday: sorry Ive been drinking...but I will be sober and skiing in the a.m.


What lake are you skiing on in the morning?

scott88prostar
06-24-2006, 02:30 AM
What lake are you skiing on in the morning?


Dude are you joking...Lake Apparentlyyoudidntreadmypost :eek:

erkoehler
06-24-2006, 02:37 AM
Dude are you joking...Lake Apparentlyyoudidntreadmypost :eek:


Ok....your in Grayslake which is VERY close to my house, so I wanted to know where you would be out.

But, if you think that trying to meet up and ski is a usless post, whatever man.

atlfootr
06-24-2006, 11:24 PM
I know there are some experienced footers here.
How close do you live to Traverse City, MI?

wiltok
06-24-2006, 11:58 PM
Not very - I'm in soutwest lower Michigan - about 2 hours from Chicago.

FYI - did the deepwater start again with a different driver. Think I have it down now - going to try long line next!!

atlfootr
06-25-2006, 08:17 AM
Not very - I'm in soutwest lower Michigan - about 2 hours from Chicago.Reason I asked that is, World Barefoot Champion Ron Scarpa will be hosting a Clinic in Traverse City, MI
Aug 14 - 18 '06 immediately after the Nationals.

Ron's Bio (http://www.ronscarpa.com/rs/servlet/RonBio)

Great opportunity for you to take lessons from a professional, rather than from "the school of hard knocks" where injuries could result and put you out for the entire summer.

Classes fill up FAST, if interested and your serious about the sport; you should definitly attend.
At least do a FULL DAY. It's money well spent! :woohoo:

Contact:
Joe Pray jpray@voyager.net

Good Luck :friday:

BuoyChaser
06-25-2006, 11:59 PM
just drink a 12 pack of Molson Ice all day, then try a deepwater...was the only way i finally figured it out...made me relaxed enough to just gradually plant my feet rather than jamming them in the water...

wiltok
06-26-2006, 01:28 PM
When on a long line - what is the optimal length (I have a non-stretch line)? The boat is an 01 X9 with 3 blade Acme.

Cloaked
06-26-2006, 01:41 PM
When on a long line - what is the optimal length (I have a non-stretch line)? The boat is an 01 X9 with 3 blade Acme.I like a 75 foot line. Anything longer just becomes cumbersome. As well, I don't worry about the table as I prefer to foot just on the outside of the wake.

Long line is for real men. :headbang:

nroland
06-27-2006, 05:17 AM
I also like 75'. As for tumble turns - - super easy and I think are the most impressive (most people don't understand how difficult backwards, one foot, etc is). If you have an X9, try hooking to the tower instead of the main pylon (the angle will help you get out and up quicker.

Another impressive trick (and very easy to do) is the flying dock start. Stand on the dock and just as the rope tightens, have the driver take off. Jump to the side (not foward as then you'll get slack in the rope) and it's just a deep water start after that. Again, not very hard, but looks cool from the boat or dock. You can also do this type of start from rafts or other boats. We used our friends Malibu as the "dock" to jump off of.

MasterCrafting
07-13-2006, 10:39 PM
Long line is for real men. :headbang:


Last time i said something to that afffect i was almost kicked off Team Talk...i got grilled so hard by like 40 footers....i didnt come back on for like 2 months had to let things cool down.

But you're right Long Line is the way to go! (No Boom on my boat) 8p

atlfootr
07-13-2006, 10:50 PM
Another impressive trick (and very easy to do) is the flying dock start. Stand on the dock and just as the rope tightens, have the driver take off. Jump to the side (not foward as then you'll get slack in the rope) and it's just a deep water start after that. Again, not very hard, but looks cool from the boat or dock. You can also do this type of start from rafts or other boats. We used our friends Malibu as the "dock" to jump off of.Amateurs, so sporty.
If longline as you put is for "real men", then what do you call footers that use the boom :confused:

Last time i said something to that afffect i was almost kicked off Team Talk...i got grilled so hard by like 40 footers....i didnt come back on for like 2 months had to let things cool down.
But you're right Long Line is the way to go! (No Boom on my boat) 8pNo one's go'n to kick you off, unless you break the commandments.
Get ready to get drilled again, so say'n asanine statements.

MasterCrafting
07-13-2006, 10:55 PM
really cool guys? maybe....

atlfootr
07-13-2006, 11:06 PM
really cool guys? maybe....Good Answer :D
Because calling this guy anything else, probably isn't wise.

Welcome to the world of boom'n ... enjoy :wavey:

BEFORE THIS IS EVER ATTEMPTED LONG LINE, IT'S PERFORMED REPEATEDLY
OVER "N OVER "N OVER ON THE BOOM!

CLICK HERE
http://www.ronscarpa.com/rs/servlet/Video

Select ---> Ron Scarpa Spring 2006
THEN PICK ---->Ron3

tex
07-13-2006, 11:24 PM
It's simple, learn on the boom first...then go to long line. I hate to meet people who say, "I can foot backwards or I can do back to fronts" and you ask them long line and they respond no, on the boom!

They should just say up front, I just boom!

atlfootr
07-13-2006, 11:34 PM
It's simple, learn on the boom first...then go to long line. I hate to meet people who say, "I can foot backwards or I can do back to fronts" and you ask them long line and they respond no, on the boom!

They should just say up front, I just boom!We have a name for those kinda footers ... "Boom Babies" :cry:

atlfootr
07-13-2006, 11:50 PM
I have been barefooting for years - mainly off a kneeboard. I now have a real barefoot suit and am trying to learn deepwater starts. My only success so far is flushing half the lake through my nose. I am working with a boom - using a short rope with a barefoot handle. Arching my back on the start, riding on my butt for a little (while which is a very unstable position). I can't seem to stablize without falling. I am particularly interested in advice on speeds - generally speaking what speed do you sit up, take feet off the rope, go into the three point sitting position, etc... My driver is not very experienced at pulling b'foot - so I'm sure that is not helping. Any advice is appreciated - TAKE A LESSON - Perferrably from this guy!

For decades Ron Scarpa has been known as one of the best competitors in the world of barefoot waterskiing, and for good reason. He has compiled more National titles, and World Overall titles than any other barefooter in history. Unfortunately for his competitors, after a three year absence from national competition, Ron returned to claim the US National Tricks and Overall Title in August 2005. With plans of taking on the world at the 2006 World Elite Barefoot Championships, Ron has rededicated himself to training in '06 in preparation for the event.

The Raging Bull has always enjoyed the competitive aspect of barefooting, and his recent success at the '05 US Nationals has once again sparked his desire to compete on the world stage in 2006. Watch for Ron at the podium in September at the World Championships.

Beyond competition Ron has continued to develop Ron Scarpa Watersports in order to remain the top barefoot school in the world. Continually modifying his instructional techniques in order to provide students with a valuable and safe learning experience is priority number one for Ron.

Regardless of where he is, Ron continues to promote the sport he loves, and tries to recruit new footers every chance he gets. Most people who train with Ron agree that in one day you will learn a summers worth of skills. Ron is always challenging himself to prove that statement true!!

© Copyright 2006 Ron Scarpa Watersports.

atlfootr
07-13-2006, 11:54 PM
World Barefoot Champion, Ron Scarpa will be hosting
a Clinic in Traverse City, MI Aug 14 - 18 '06 immediately after the Nationals.

Great opportunity for you to take lessons from a professional, rather than from "the school of hard knocks" where injuries could result and put you out for the entire summer.

Classes fill up FAST, if interested and your serious about the sport; you should definitly attend.
At least do a FULL DAY. It's money well spent!

Contact:
Joe Pray jpray@voyager.net

Davo
07-14-2006, 09:12 AM
It's simple, learn on the boom first...then go to long line. I hate to meet people who say, "I can foot backwards or I can do back to fronts" and you ask them long line and they respond no, on the boom!
Those people are still talented footers as far as I'm concerned. :rolleyes:

atlfootr
07-14-2006, 10:20 AM
Those people are still talented footers as far as I'm concerned. :rolleyes:Those ppl, :confused:

Laurel_Lake_Skier
07-14-2006, 10:23 AM
Those ppl, :confused:
I think he means those who do their footing off a boom.

atlfootr
07-14-2006, 10:26 AM
Forum Thread "Need help - barefoot" ...is posted under Wakeboarding & Wakeskating,
NOT Waterskiing & Barefooting.

Personally, it could of been a minor mistake but I think he needs more help w/ posting his threads correctly than he does needing help - barefoot'n ... :twocents:

atlfootr
07-14-2006, 10:29 AM
Those people are still talented footers as far as I'm concerned. :rolleyes:Talented or not, did you or anyone else bother to watch the "Scarpa" clip?

Davo
07-14-2006, 06:16 PM
I think he means those who do their footing off a boom.

I meant those who foot backwards and do back to fronts....I don't care if they're on a boom or not - they have my respect.

That said, from what I've read tex is a talented 3-event guy (footer?) and contest footing is done long line so I understand why he feels that way. I'm just a weekend warrior who knows how difficult back footing is from personal experience. :)

Davo
07-14-2006, 06:26 PM
Talented or not, did you or anyone else bother to watch the "Scarpa" clip?

Not yet, but I will...I've been too busy this week to hang around here as much as I would've liked.

It's quitin' time so I'm outta here...time to ride! What I need to do is get a barefoot suit so I can foot more!

Have a good weekend y'all. :toast:

atlfootr
07-14-2006, 11:39 PM
What I need to do is get a barefoot suit, so I can foot more! :toast:I've got 3, what size do you need?
And what part of FLA do you consider "central"?

I ask that, because I was hoping maybe you'd like to come out and join us for a day of foot'n sometime ... whenever you're not busy.

Davo
07-15-2006, 12:42 AM
I've got 3, what size do you need?
And what part of FLA do you consider "central"?

I ask that, because I was hoping maybe you'd like to come out and join us for a day of foot'n sometime ... whenever you're not busy.


I wear a friends suit and it's a medium. It feels a little big in the stomach area, but shoulder to crotch it fits good and it seems to work for me. I think it's an Intensity..I'm actually wearing it in my profile pic. I haven't tried any other suits recently, but most of the size charts say I should be wearing a small. I'm 5' 5' and 145 lbs and I'm definitely interested if you have one you'd like to sell that might fit.

Thanks for the offer to come out and foot sometime. I'm about an hour from Winter Haven....near Sanford. :toast:

Davo
07-15-2006, 12:51 AM
CLICK HERE
http://www.ronscarpa.com/rs/servlet/Video

Select ---> Ron Scarpa Spring 2006
THEN PICK ---->Ron3

He makes it look easy, but I know better! :D